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|
DATE |
|
| 2/8 |
Good Afternoon
Thanks to Larry Roe for reference on the 1992 type 1 and 2 helo study. Also
thanks to Rick Dunlap and Sheila Valentine for finding it.
WHIt is nice to have community that helps. Ab. |
| 2/8 |
Ab, I'm a newbie at helicopters... and helitack and rappellers. What's the
difference between the two? Do they do different things? I thought they both
could rappel but some helitack do not, they just get to fires by helicopter?
(Other kinds of crews can also get helicopter transport from time to time, can't
they?)
I looked on the
FS People
in Fire page. Helitack and Rappellers are listed differently, but there are
not any in California that are listed? Do you have to have handcrew experience
to apply for a helitack crew?
I see you have a photo page for
Arroyo Grande Flight Crew in CA and they rappel. How is a flight crew
different from helitack? What do they do? Looks like they're a Type 1 crew like
hotshots. Is a rappel crew a Type 1 crew?
Someone told me CDF has helitack crews and each crew goes with an assigned
helicopter. Is that true of all helitack crews, like Eva's crew was
Helitack 404 and the helicopter was H404? Seems like the AG crew did not have
the helicopter name, but a location and the big helicopter was not called Arroyo
Grande.
Are there only 3 types of helicopters? 1, biggest; 2 medium; 3 smallest? What
size helicopters carry helitack? Type 2s or 1s? (Was helicopter Arroyo Grande a
Type 1 helicopter? Does the agency own the helicopter if it's married with the
crew? Do they contract with some helicopter for a season to carry a crew to
fires or stick with them all season?
I read a bunch of the names ff are called (feel the ribbing) on the
Funny
Terms page. I heard "hot rope" at some time and it's not there, so maybe
it's not one of the humerous terms. Does anyone know what that means?
Thanks for any help. So much stuff to figure out, so little time...
JJ |
| 2/7 |
Save the dates for the WFF's 6th annual Fire Family Day: May 14-16. I
added those to the
Hotlist
calendar (bottom of page) and will update info there. Ab. |
| 2/7 |
Still skeptical: Perhaps you are a rappeller and if so you already know
the answer is and always will be human error. Equipment used
back in the beginning with no QA checks being done was far more subject to
failure than the current equipment. The
program is solid, but like many programs that the "Agencies" have used in the
past, it has grown; when it grows new
players get involved. R5 for years was allowing first year helitack crewmembers
to concurrently learn helitack and
become a rappeller in the same season (too much for some individuals in M.H.O).
You cannot throw everything away every time there is an accident. If this is
he new model then we should just keep all
the aircraft parked and we can rest assured that we will be 100% safe. If the
rappel op is shut down even for the year,
all I can say is "be safe jumpers because you will be busier".
Kneejerked |
| 2/6 |
Ab please consider adding this to the
quotes
page. roadrunner
“Tactical catastrophes are never the outcome of a single poor decision.
Small compromises incrementally close off options until a commander
is forced into actions he would never choose freely.”
Nathaniel
Flick
I added it.
Thank you.
For those that might not know, there is a group of firefighter risk managers
that have been pursuing and honing alternatives for lessons learned (for
example:
from AAR to SAI, especially the APA) and pushing Just Culture for the
last 5 years. Hats off to them. They are among FIRE's true heroes in their
attempts to change the culture in the spite of the cloud of legal mess
firefighters live under. Ab. |
| 2/6 |
Rappel/helicopter questions: Ab, I asked for some feedback on these
questions and received the following. Any replies to this please contact Mike
Apicello / with the FS Branch of Risk Management, Human Performance and
Development - he is the FS NIFC PAO and I'm sure he will get questions to the
appropriate person. Mellie
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jon,
Now that I know you're a follower of They Said, I would like to pose a few
questions in regards to rappel
standardization and your previous post.
1) It is my understanding that the reason we would reduce our rappel
capability this season is due to unsafe
equipment. If that is the case, why would we consider using our current
unsafe equipment to rappel at all
this year?
The Forest Service puts all of its aerial delivery firefighter equipment and
deployment systems through arduous testing procedures in order to provide the
safe equipment for its users. The safety of our aerial delivered firefighters is
paramount. For example: Sky genies are X-rayed for any cracks or faults; frayed
ropes or let-down lines that develop twists or don't spool properly are culled
and replaced. Replacement parachutes when acquired from manufacturers are
inspected by master riggers many times before they are ever jumped. And perhaps
the best example has been the evolution of the fire shelter over the past
decade. Safety check must be continuous and ongoing and every firefighter has
the right and also the responsibility to check, inspect, and report equipment
deficiencies in order to mitigate unwarranted risks.
2) If we are concerned about safety records, why is the Bell medium
the apparent platform of choice? A
quick look at history shows that the Bell medium (and other platforms that
the rappellers leave the ground
without being hooked in) have a recurring incidence of rappellers going to
the skid without being hooked in.
Aerially delivered firefighters are taught to maintain a constant, and widely
focused situational awareness about where they are when situated in aircraft and
also how to maneuver in the various types of platforms they are trained and
qualified to use. Rappellers, Helitack and Smokejumpers are trained up to
mission standards for each different platform that might deliver them to an
incident. Practice and Proficiency flights are mandatory to keep skill levels
high and performance at peak levels without compromising safety. The issue here
is maintaining the ability to stay focused on equipment during equipment checks,
while keeping situational awareness keen on all the procedures involved while
exiting an aircraft.
3) I hear rumors of a number medium helicopters being dedicated as
rappel ships; no bucket, no crew
transport. Does this really sound like an efficient use of aircraft?
The Forest Service has no intention to do away with the multiple use
capabilities of the aircraft platforms they use for rappel ships. If rappellers
are used on a fire, the same platform can be used to bring in other equipment
and support the incident as needed.
4) You stated that the development of new equipment has been
progressing rapidly. Can you give us an
update? There has been no new information in a year on the work at MTDC. Can
we expect a safe and
functional product prior to the end of FY12? Last word was that MTDC was
funded for the project until
then.
Research, development, and testing of new types of equipment is a mission of
MTDC. Much emphasis and time is spent looking at a multitude of products, and
where possible, adopting the best qualities from multiple types of equipment to
develop the safest tools possible. The goal is to build out the "risk factors"
to insure the most efficient and safest equipment is developed. These processes
take time. As new equipment becomes available MTDC will often issue bulletins,
tech-tips, directions, guidelines and specialized reports when it comes to new
or replacement types of equipment.
I thank you for prompt clarification of these issues.
-Still Skeptical
I'm happy to copy and paste or forward any further questions to Apicello
or send them to him yourself. Ab. |
| 2/6 |
Memorial Run in memory of Mike Schweitzer to benefit WFF From Lea
Schweitzer:
Mike Schweitzer Memorial Challenge (2738 K doc file)
Some text:
When: April 24th, 2010, 9:00 am race start time, 8:00 am race
day registration
Where: Scott Valley Pleasure Park, Etna, California
Facilities:
Parking & bathrooms available at the Pleasure Park. Post race refreshments will be availableCourse: The entire
course is a mixture of road and trail in and around the historic town of Etna.
The 5km route winds through the town. The 10km and half marathon events
continue through the woods outside of town. The final leg of the half marathon
winds through ranches and farmland before returning to the Pleasure Park. The
course will be marked and there will be volunteers to help direct runners.
Water aid stations will be provided along the course for the 10km and half
marathon routes.
To Enter
Participants can also print a copy of the registration form online at
www.wffoundation.org/. Please make
checks payable to the Wildland Firefighter Foundation with a notation for Mike
Schweitzer Memorial Challenge The registration can be mailed to : (see the
flyer)
Cost
Early entry: 5km or 10km event: $15 Race day: $20
Early entry: Half Marathon $20 Race day: $25
Note entry fees are tax deductible.
Additional donations above the requested entry fee are welcome. All proceeds
will directly benefit the
Wildland Firefighter Foundation.
More info and entry form on the
flyer. This is a worthy and fun event. Try to make it if you can. I added it
to the hotlist calendar of events. Ab.
|
| 2/5 |
Mcleod's original commentary is in italicized bold black and indented. Fork
in the Trail responses are in normal text.
Ab,
I almost hate to ask this question...
Is there a new policy in place by the Forest Service in Region
5 or Nationally not to release or share Serious Accident Investigations? The
National Park Service released the Andy Palmer SAI (accident '08) but not the
FS. No one has seen the Packer / Panther Fatality Serious Accident Investigation
Report (accident '08). The NTSB released the Iron 44 Report (accident '08), as
it was their jurisdiction. Now it's clear there's a Draft Report on the rappel
accident ('09) that researchers were given. It seems a bit bass-ackward that the
research article was released even before a factual accident investigation
report. Don't get me wrong, the article is very good in my estimation and
explains the likely human factors causes, but why release it before the
investigation's release? Is the article supposed to take the place of the
investigation's release?
AB - I am not sure but since the Packer fatality
happened on Forest Service land it may be in the hands of the Accident Review
Board. They will be the group that determines what needs to be done to rectify
or modify any practices, policies or procedures surrounding this type of event
in the future. Because these are serious and somewhat rare incidents - they are
given time to vet solutions that can work. They do not take these fatalities
lightly and the goal is if we can not prevent them - then to determine steps
needed in the system that may be barriers or better practices to better react to
these very sad and traumatic, somewhat rarer then usual events from occurring in
the future - at least that is my take.
Ab, if there is a shift in FS policy, shouldn't theysaid also
have a shift?
Hmmm - good question for the
editors of Theysaid, (a balanced thinker here?)
If there is not a timely lessons learned discussion because
the facts are being withheld or severely delayed or requiring FOIA, I think you
should allow us to discuss what we think might be lessons learned. There are
critical lessons to be learned from most things that go wrong. How do we ever do
better if we can't talk about what was planned, what happened and how to do it
better?
One thing I do know is that in a Serious
Accident Review, it can take up to 45 days to compile the final report which in
other accident investigations has been a critical factor. I know that people
want immediate answers after bad incidents occur; unfortunately it takes time
to put the pieces together and unfortunately its also during the post trauma
period when emotions are the highest, people grieve, and the pains are many and
heavy. However there are other tools out there for finding the lessons in
mishaps and close calls that could also be highly traumatic. I describe two
organizational learning tools below:
First off I certainly agree with McCleod's
train of thought. One thing that the forest service accomplished was they
developed a Branch of Risk Management to help foster along the fire suppression
Doctrine discussed during the Pulaski Conference in 2005 as one of their primary
missions. Little do people realize that the key to having SAFE outcomes is in
the skilled ability to manage, interpret and mitigate risk; hence Risk
Management. Right now - to answer the question above regarding how can we learn
from things that go wrong. -- In the Branch of Risk Management for the Forest
Service there are both a ground Operations Risk Management Council and an
Aviation Risk Management council - there is also a lot of development going on
with organizational learning that is finally coming to fruition out of the
foundational principles associated with the early thinking about Forest Service
Wildland Fire suppression Doctrine.
Two tools that have already been used and we
are finding good results from are the called the FLA and the APA - the
"Facilitated Learning Analysis", and the "Accident Prevention Analysis". These
tools were first rolled out under the moniker of Peer Reviews - with the key
to their success dependent on a few key items: the ability for a unit to agree
to take a close look at an event that occurred on their unit, and the unit's
agreement to "own" the incident and the derived lessons learned - all for the
sake of the greater good so others can learn from it. The type of mishaps and
close calls are usually events that can occur anywhere, anytime to fire
practitioners. And quite often they involve common practices that people do
every day and because they may have never been addressed or looked at from a
learning perspective, unknowingly slip away from corporate memory or even local
unit memory until they happen to a degree people are affected. These are the
moments of yin and yang where great learning opportunities exist and are
recognized as such. In a truly progressive unit, district, Forest,
interagency office etc - there first has to be an agreement to let the people
involved "tell their story" and without fear of reprisal - It's an opportunity
for those involved to truly explain not only what they saw, but what they felt,
did or did not do, and it also allows for them to speak out about what they
were thinking at the time - its a very introspective, honest and a real process.
Almost like the type of "reality checks" people take when they know they need
to air, vent, share, counsel etc for others to become aware. And it takes balls
to be brave enough to do it. The key though about implementation and changing
to a learning culture is having the passion for safety to be open and honest.
It is the true manifestation of what one person can learn from their mistake
and be brave enough to admit it. Of course this also applies to crews, and any
number of people involved in these mishaps, accidents and close calls. How are
we to become a true learning culture - one that learns from its mistakes - if we
do not talk about them? And then share the lessons learned. With an APA or FLA
- these are key objectives, with the timely delivery of the lesson made
available to the collective family of practitioners and to the Leadership of the
practitioners. To me, it encompasses shared learning and shared responsibility.
We have had so many brave people participate
in a growing number of FLAs and APAs and now it is growing to the point where
every leader in the agency should know about these organizational learning tools
and be able to distinguish when to use them. We have had many wise leaders
invite the process onto their units. In fact - there are many outside
industries that do this under the concept of a Just and Learning Culture. And I
am sure as we continue our evolution into high reliability organizing, we will
also help improve morale as well as cognitive communication. We see these type
of tools used in high-risk professions such as medicine, military ops, space
exploration and other professions. These tools fit right in with organization
and culture change and the implementation of Doctrine empowerment. In fact,
any reason not to use them begs the question: WHY WOULD AN ORGANIZATION NOT WANT
TO LEARN FROM ITS MISTAKES WHEN THE OPPORTUNITY IS THERE TO DO SO WITHOUT
ALLOWING "HARM" TO OTHERS and bringing greater knowledge to the future? That's
my personal take and I think it is the right way to go if we are going to become
even better at what we already do so well - and oftentimes just take for granted
- until tragedy occurs.
Let me say again, I have no inside knowledge of anything on
report release timing, but am commenting here on appearances that might be
reality.
As far as bad FS morale, I have not seen anyone mention that
morale took a real beating and set a powerful downward trajectory when the FS
decided to indict employees on the Cramer Fire that were simply doing their jobs
as best they could given job overload, etc. I'd say half to 2/3 of Type 3 ICs
not renewing their redcards sheds some light on declining morale ya think?
THIS STATEMENT IS RIGHT ON AND IT NEEDS TO BE HEARD!
Many people think that work overload, budget, and a number of things are
affecting morale- and I have to agree - but WE AS A FIRE COMMUNITY CAN NOT
FORGET WHAT THIS DID TO BOOTS ON THE GROUND and to people who care even at
higher levels. Did this hurt morale - you bet it did - and the ICT 3 issue is
just one fallout. -- Thanks for the time to air out. My English is not that good
as I am a member of the foreign legion. Lest I forget - every accident we
prevent is a good thing!
- ForkintheTrail.
|
| 2/5 |
Looking for an old aviation study: Good afternoon,
I'm looking for 2 studies regarding aviation. After hours of surfing the web as
well as contacting the
FS Library, I have come up empty handed.
The studies are:
- USDA Forest Service (1992) National study of type 1 and 2 helicopters
to support large fire suppression; Final Report. USDA Forest Service.
(Washington, DC)
- as well as
the 1991 National Shared Forces Task Force Report (USDA).
Any information email <snip>
Thanks-
Ward L. Hiesterman
Assistant Manager- National Helicopter
Gallatin National Forest Rappel Crew |
| 2/5 |
Seen this? Rapid City Man Sentenced for Mailing Fraudulent Firefighter
Documents
DOJ Webpage has the sentencing info.
Stanley |
| 2/5 |
Lots of new jobs up on the
Jobs page. Ab. |
| 2/5 |
Tips for Applying to Forest Service Jobs (FireHire)
With the R5 FireHire deadline coming up (March 8th), I wanted to share
some tutorials that I put together to help people get through the application
process for Forest Service fire positions. These first three tutorials were
designed to address some of the typical problems/questions that we get asked on
a regular basis. We will continue to develop more tutorials over the next few
weeks and welcome any suggestions - particularly on topics to cover.
The video tutorials are located together on the "Resources" page of our website:
http://wildlandfirecareers.com/resources.htm.
Or separately on YouTube:
How to Spot Critical Checkboxes in Forest Service Applications:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=NldhPOGrQtQ
What Is My Announcement Number? (Forest Service):
www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwe9VBK9mX8
Searching For Announcement Numbers In Avue (Forest Service):
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uwu85HSyFJk
I hope that these videos will help some folks get started in the right
direction. Thanks!
Sincerely,
Bethany E. Loomis-Hannah, owner
Wildland Fire Careers & Loomis Hannah Wordsmithing
www.WildlandFireCareers.com | 1.866.414.1447 (tollfree) | 1.866.686.5484
(fax) |
| 2/4 |
Tim Stubbs passing Good evening AB and all.
I've been away from the forum for a few days and tonight while the rain is
falling horizontally here in Nor-Cal I was catching up.
I'm very saddened to hear about the passing of NMAIRBEAR. I enjoyed the mans
insight and wisdom. Wildlandfire.com has
lost a great contributor. I will miss him.
danfromord |
| 2/4 |
Retiree Annuitant Program? Hey Ab:
I'm hearing rumors that Federal Fire Retirees may be going back to their last
GS-wage for the upcoming fire season.
Has anyone heard about this and is there anywhere to find out more? Is this the
Retiree Annuitant Program?
Roamy360 |
| 2/4 |
Tim Stubbs passing Dear Ab and All:
I was honored to get a call from Tim Stubbs' sister Terri this evening. We had a
nice long chat. There was a
recent post about where to send cards, donations etc., but according to her no
one will be living at the Texas
address listed in the post.
She suggested that letters/notes to Tim's kids Jesse & Amanda could be sent in
her care to:
Terri Christofk Stubbs
3700 Trieste Dr.
Carlsbad, CA 92010
She also provided her phone number so if someone wants that, please contact me.
Thanks,
Casey
|
| 2/4 |
Mr. Pena;
Thank you, sir, for your response, and for clearing that up.
Pyro
|
| 2/4 |
Privacy Act and necessary or unnecessary redactions: From a lawyer friend,
there is some discretion in whether or not redactions are necessary.
The Privacy Act and FIOA laws were the origin of redactions. First one was
the 1974 act of congress.
The first redactions I know of were present to a small degree in the South
Canyon Report (1994 South
Canyon Incident). There are some good links at the bottom of wilipedia page
below on additional
amendments.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privacy_Act_of_1974
GA Peach |
| 2/4 |
Rappel standardization: Jon,
Now that I know you're a follower of They Said, I would like to pose
a few questions in regards to rappel
standardization and your previous post.
1) It is my understanding that the reason we would reduce our rappel capability
this season is due to unsafe
equipment. If that is the case, why would we consider using our current unsafe
equipment to rappel at all
this year?
2) If we are concerned about safety records, why is the Bell medium the apparent
platform of choice? A
quick look at history shows that the Bell medium (and other platforms that the
rappellers leave the ground
without being hooked in) have a recurring incidence of rappellers going to the
skid without being hooked in.
3) I hear rumors of a number medium helicopters being dedicated as rappel ships;
no bucket, no crew
transport. Does this really sound like an efficient use of aircraft?
4) You stated that the development of new equipment has been progressing
rapidly. Can you give us an
update? There has been no new information in a year on the work at MTDC. Can we
expect a safe and
functional product prior to the end of FY12? Last word was that MTDC was funded
for the project until
then.
I thank you for prompt clarification of these issues.
-Still Skeptical |
| 2/4 |
Thanks to Michelle Reugebrink: Ab's,
I just have a simple post. We all owe Michelle
Reugebrink - R5 Safety & Occupational Health Specialist a big
thank you for her support to the Fire Community. She is a true leader and
comes to work everyday and gives it everything
she's got. What more can you ask for. She does so much in front of and behind
the scenes for all. She has been locally,
regionally and nationally recognized as a true leader for her work in Health and
Safety Management.
Thank you Michelle
ms
I agree 100%. Ab. |
| 2/4 |
John Thomas Retirement: (sent in by Hutch) I would like to let everyone
know that John Thomas better known as JT has elected to hang up his Whites after
32 years of fighting fire. JT leaves as the Deputy Chief on the Angeles N.F. He
spent his entire career on the Angeles with the very large part of that on the
Saugus District (later named the Santa Clara/Mojave Rivers) as a Captain and
Superintendent for the Texas Canyon Hot Shots. He subsequently moved into
management in 2002 as Battalion Chief and then a stint as the Angeles Fuels
Office before becoming Deputy. JT is an excellent leader locally and nationally
as well as an outstanding role model for young firefighters.
The celebration of his career will take place March 13, 2010 at the Eliopulos
Pavilion located at the Antelope Valley Fairgrounds in Lancaster. Time is
1800-2330 hrs. Cost is $50.00 per head which covers dinner, gift and expenses, a
cash bar will be available. Any proceeds over the cost of the event will be
donated to the Wildland Firefighter Foundation. For those from out of town, a
group rate has been established at the Hampton Inn in Lancaster under John
Thomas Retirement.
Those that are interested in attending please make reservations by February
22, 2010 through either Kenny Ellyson or Rodney Guillery at fs.fed.us, payment
by check is requested prior to February 26.
Hope you all join in the festivities and make sure you bring a good story about
JT with you to send him off to a well deserved retirement. |
| 2/4 |
response to Pyro post on 2/1 Pena did make a typo. The date is June 1,
2010.
Jim Peña
Deputy Regional Forester
Pacific Southwest Region
707-562-9000
jpena@fs.fed.us |
| 2/4 |
SAI releases and declining morale: Ab,
I almost hate to ask this question...
Is there a new policy in place by the Forest Service in Region 5 or
Nationally not to release or share Serious Accident Investigations? The National
Park Service released the Andy Palmer SAI (accident '08) but not the FS. No one
has seen the Packer / Panther Fatality Serious Accident Investigation Report
(accident '08). The NTSB released the Iron 44 Report (accident '08), as it was
their jurisdiction. Now it's clear there's a Draft Report on the rappel accident
('09) that researchers were given. It seems a bit bass-ackward that the research
article was released even before a factual accident investigation report. Don't
get me wrong, the article is very good in my estimation and explains the likely
human factors causes, but why release it before the investigation's release? Is
the article supposed to take the place of the investigation's release?
Ab, if there is a shift in FS policy, shouldn't theysaid also have a shift?
If there is not a timely lessons learned discussion because the facts are being
withheld or severely delayed or requiring FOIA, I think you should allow us to
discuss what we think might be lessons learned. There are critical lessons to be
learned from most things that go wrong. How do we ever do better if we can't
talk about what was planned, what happened and how to do it better?
Let me say again, I have no inside knowledge of anything on report release
timing, but am commenting here on appearances that might be reality.
As far as bad FS morale, I have not seen anyone mention that morale took a
real beating and set a powerful downward trajectory when the FS decided to
indict employees on the Cramer Fire that were simply doing their jobs as best
they could given job overload, etc. I'd say half to 2/3 of Type 3 ICs not
renewing their redcards sheds some light on declining morale ya think?
mcleod
Fair question. I guess we'll have to evaluate. Does anyone know if the
Panther Fatality Report is completed and what is the timeline for release? Ab. |
| 2/3 |
Tim Stubbs passing: AB,
I found the following on the NPS Morning Report this morning. It gives some
information on how to contact
the family. May Tim find smooth air on his journey and Gods speed.
Craig
Intermountain Region
Passing Of Tim Stubbs
It is with deep sadness that we announce the passing of Tim Stubbs, former
fire management officer for Carlsbad Caverns and Guadalupe Mountains
National Park.
Tim passed away due to natural causes in Albuquerque, New Mexico, on January
28th. A private memorial service will be held for Tim at his mother's home
in California.
Tim began his permanent NPS career in March 1990. He retired as the FMO in
February 2003. In addition to being the fire management officer, Tim was a
fire behavior analyst, long term fire analyst, and an air tactical group
supervisor. He was a wildland firefighter icon and staunch advocate for
firefighter safety.
Tim's family has asked that in lieu of flowers, please address any cards
and/or donations to his children, Jesse and Amanda Stubbs. Please send your
cards and/or donations to the attention of: <snip, please see a better
address in post from Casey on 2/4>.
[Submitted by John Lujan, john_lujan@ nospam nps.gov]
|
| 2/3 |
2010 Spring Centralized Fire Hiring - Grades 06 through 10 Date:
February 3, 2010
Subject: 2010 Spring Centralized Fire Hiring - Grades 06 through 10
To: Forest Supervisors and Directors
The first of three planned centralized fire-hire sessions for 2010 is
scheduled for this Spring. The purpose of this letter is to provide dates and
actions required to make this a successful event.
Vacant positions, grades 06 through 10, will be available for filling from
referral lists generated from the open-and-continuous announcements (OCRs)
listed in Enclosure 1. All positions vacated as a result of the incumbent
promoting during the hiring round (referred to as a backfill) will also be
available for filling. The timeline for the hiring process is as follows:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
March 08: Last day applicants may apply to OCRs for the Spring
fire hire. Applicants are encouraged to apply early and to not wait until the
last day to avoid incomplete applications or errors that could occur.
Applicants must also apply or re-certify current profiles within 60 days before
this deadline, or AVUE will not refer them on a referral list.
March 09: Referral lists generated by Human Resources (HR).
March 10 – April 02: HR will work on applicant qualifications,
veteran preference, and printing applications for fire subject-matter experts (SMEs).
April 05 – April 16: Fire SMEs evaluate and document applications
for strengths and weakness, and make and document supervisor reference calls.
April 19 – April 30: Recommendations, selections and offers made,
and personnel actions processed.
May 23: Earliest effective start date for new hires. Extended
dates may be required for selections that include transfer of station or
drug-testing.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It is critical this information be shared with your managers,
supervisors, and employees.
Applicants need to understand that when they accept a position, declining at a
later date may not be an option; their vacated position will immediately be
considered for backfill.
Forests will be asked to have individuals available to assist as subject-matter
specialists during the April 5-16, 2010, timeframe. In addition, each Forest
with vacancies will be expected to have at least one recommending official
available at McClellan during the weeks of April 19-30, 2010. The recommending
official should have a delegation of authority from the Forest Supervisor
outlining their responsibilities and authority during the hiring session.
Forests will be contacted to provide the names of individuals assisting in these
processes.
Each Forest should review their fire vacancies’ SF-52s for accuracy. They are
listed on the Region 5 SF-52 Tracker home page. The report is called “Recruit &
Fill – Fire O&C Summary,” which is listed on the left-hand side under the
section entitled “REPORTS.” Units should also verify that the Region 5
Centralized Permanent Fire Positions “Vacancy Posting” report correctly lists
all current vacancies and has an approved SF-52 for the applicable position
included in the “Recruit & Fill – Fire O&C Summary” report. The “Vacancy
Posting” report is located on the Jobs web page at
www.fs.fed.us/fsjobs/openings,
by selecting the “Region 5 Centralized Permanent Fire Positions” link on that
page.
It is critical these reports be verified, especially looking at AVUE city and
duty station locations to ensure that correct locations are used in generating
referral lists and placing hires into the correct location. This validation
should be completed by Friday, March 5, 2010.
I request that each of you work with your managers/supervisors, Civil Rights
Officers, and recruiters to ensure that we document and complete outreach and
recruitment for all Fire OCRs in Enclosure 1. It is critical that you inform
employees who are interested in Fire positions to apply for positions, grades 06
through 10, by the March 8, 2010, deadline. In accordance with our backfill
procedures and new vacancies occurring between now and the close of the
generated referral lists, interested employees should apply to all positions and
locations of interest to them, even if the position is currently filled. Again,
your assistance in ensuring that supervisors and employees are fully aware of
these timelines is appreciated.
Questions for Fire management officials should be directed to Gary Biehl,
Assistant Director, Strategic Services, at gbiehl@ nospam fs.fed.etc or at (209)
532-3671, extension 315. Questions for Human Resources officials should be
directed to Robin Irvine at rlirvine@ nospam fs.fed.etc or at (530) 841-4481.
/s/ Angela V. Coleman (for)
RANDY MOORE
Regional Forester
Enclosure
(includes the rest of the info)
cc: Gary Biehl, Robin L Irvine, FCROs, R5 Recruiters, Elizabeth
Wright |
| 2/3 |
Updates on the Work Capacity Test, Medical Standards Transition Information,
etc:
www.fs.fed.us/fire/safety/wct/wct_index.html
Strider |
| 2/3 |
Tim Stubbs' Passing Dear Ab & All:
Regarding Tim's passing, I received a call this afternoon from the DC office of
his congressional representative from
New Mexico interested in doing something to remember Tim such as a letter to the
family etc., but they have no
contact information for family or who would know of such things.
If anyone knows I'd be delighted to pass along the information to the office.
Folks can always contact me at
cjudd@fwfsa.org or 208-775-4577.
Thanks,
Casey
Casey, from what I've heard there's a small family memorial service
at his mom's in socal this weekend. We have a request for info to several
people. Someone is forwarding one message this evening when he's back at his
computer. I'll let you know what I learn. Ab. |
| 2/3 |
In honor and memory of Tim,
Doug Campbell is offering an e-version of his
Campbell Prediction System Language: Glossary of Terms
It's normally for sale on his website, but
he says he wants it offered free to theysaiders, to all interested in fire
behavior.
The file is large, 6,519 K. No breaking fires right now, so our server should be
able to handle download traffic.
Here's to Tim Stubbs!
Ab.
Download |
| 2/3 |
In Memory of Tim Stubbs:
In the fall of 1996 as a recent S-490 graduate I was fortunate to work with Tim
Stubbs for the first time. In 1996 The
Calabasas Fire in Malibu nearly took several firefighters lives during structure
protection in Corral Canyon.
FBAN Tim Stubbs was brought into the accident investigation team. Tim and I
developed a working relationship and
friendship that is encompassed by firefighter safety and its relation to fire
behavior. This man had a passion or quest for
the keeping all our firefighters safe is paramount.
Having developed this friendship with Tim was reality for me and he is one of
the great mentors in my life in fire
behavior training. After Tim had me hooked I was now a fixed asset and support
group for carving change and as Tim
would say “making this stuff important.” I was fortunate to be asked to
participate on The Southwest S-490 Cadre
with great firefighters who are legends, i.e., Paul Gleason and Tim Stubbs…now
both sharing stories from above us.
Tim has left our Cadre with fond memories and a continuing deep hearted passion
for sending the message to the new
folks in fire that “this stuff is important.” Tim was a great friend to The Los
Angeles County Fire Department.
Ironically, Tim could not participate in the 2010 S-490 held in Las Cruces due
to his commitments with ATGS in ALB.
The cadre was sharing stories days prior of Tim passing. And what a blow when we
heard the news.
The Southwest S-490 Cadre is a tight bunch and are all sadden by his passing
which was way too soon! The night
sessions followed by Tim’s music with Charlie Possie we will miss.
Tim has had a way to group, attract and collect good people who shared his same
passion firefighter safety.
Tim you will be missed tremendously…I thank you for your friendship…continued
mentorship and I can’t thank you
enough for just being a part of my life, Vaya Con Dios mi Amigo.
Your Pal,
Drew Smith
LACoFD |
| 2/3 |
Ab and Contributors:
I applaud Theysaid for the in-depth perspectives they share and their ability to
accurately - and in a timely way distribute news and information to the
firefighting world.
I laud the practicality, the insights, and the guts you have to take an issue
- determine its relevancy - and with fair minded oversight - share your concerns
for the manner in which information is conveyed. Specifically, I think that the
message regarding the golden hour and knowing when and how to pull triggers to
get harmed firefighters out of further harm's way was brought very positively
suggesting discussion with the M.D. regarding his thoughts of capabilities that
can be taken when responders are faced with life or death situations; especially
in dealing with remote incidents. Although I am not privy to any of the
conversation that must have occurred - I do see the tremendous potential in
discussing and sharing ideas with knowledgeable people whose professional fortes
can cross disciplines and subsequently assist fire agencies with their mission
of preventing, dealing with, and implementing the concept of "allow no harm, do
no harm." Every first responder, Hot shot, jumper, engine crew - ALL who work
firefighting should be as familiar with the "no harm" doctrine as they are with
fire suppression doctrine in firefighting operations.
So without a bunch of big, esoteric, bureaucratic words - there are many lessons
to be learned - if people are allowed to freely communicate what they saw, what
they did or did not do, what they thought and how they perceived the event, or
incident. Learning comes from listening. Learning also occurs with good
attitudes. Mindful and caring people should never be "put on the block" for
trying to do the right thing. No matter the unintended, or "unwilled outcome",
we all are aware that even the worst things happen in our line of work. Some of
these we can see and can explain, and some we just don't see and try to figure
out why; and some just happen - because of timing in the universal matrices of
nature. I don't mean to sound crude, but acceptance is always better than denial
when it comes to learning and telling the truth.
Much like Jack Thomas used to say about leadership: "Obey the law and Tell the
Truth" - what he meant was simply - do the right thing. I believe that in
today's firefighting culture there is a high awareness of what people are
expected to do in their jobs. Where many problems arise because of human factors
- such as fatigue and loss of attentive awareness - all too often greater harm
can be done when sense of the bigger picture gets missed, or swallowed up in the
vortex of lost situational awareness. However, this may also be the time when no
one can sense reality from the unexpected. We must always remember that people
are not infallible all the time; however the systems that they work in, do.
Without leadership, many important things get overlooked and all too often the
boots on the ground get stepped on with blame - and consequently both the system
and the people disconnect in the fray. That's why communications is so important
if a culture really wants to learn and better itself.
What I am encouraged to think is that a newer, greater effort is being placed on
empowering firefighters and boots on the ground to vocalize alone with
leadership their sensing of situations that don't feel right. I think that we
all try to make systems we are not even aware of work. We must understand what
dealing with and managing risk is all about. I believe that intuitive thinking
needs to be part and parcel to situational attentiveness in every firefighter,
no mater their degree of experience - People need to be listened to, and more
importantly - be allowed to openly address what they intuitively feel. Much like
teaching a young child to cross the street, intuitive learning is alive and well
and more often than not goes unnoticed - or unheard when faced with serious
feelings of insecurity and unknowing. Fortunately by nature, most people think
instinctively every day. In a lighter analogy, it's one of the first thing
school children are taught by their parents or guardians when learning how to
cross street. "Look both ways, walk, don't run, and cross where it is
appropriate - boom - lessons learned. Kind of like "look up, look down, look
around" when operating in the fire environment; only in these cases we know
there are multiple risks and we attempt to ingrain situational attentiveness as
a learned process as well.
Agency Doctrine has been talked about for awhile now. Many people still have
difficulty explaining it. It's almost an esoteric concept, including many with
trayfuls of slides of trays noting their experience. However, what I do see is
happening is a slow evolution of people speaking out and joining in what is a
foundational principle of Doctrine - and that is sharing questions, getting
answers, and looking out beyond the next ridge while focusing on spot fires. I
also see people making decisions about risk. A good example is the number of
qualified ICT3s that threw in their quals because the bigger "risk" to families
and loved one was more important; and especially if their comfort in overseeing
other people's lives makes or made them uncomfortable, especially with
decisions. I believe we will solve morale problems, reduce exposures, and make
better decisions when agencies allow leaders to follow their mindsets, intuition
and guts.
Regarding the Golden Hour - this is a time where life or death is in the balance
- not only of those trying to do the right thing - but also in the mind of the
injured. Accidents do happen and for some, there will always be victims and for
some survivors. However, let us not ignore the golden opportunity to listen to
others. It's fundamentally right that a system of safety allow for this to
occur.
So thank you Theysaid for the job you do. Keep kicking tires.
ForkintheTrail. |
| 2/3 |
Budget of the U.S. Government for Fiscal 2011, impact on fuels: making the
BLM rounds
2011 fuels funding for all DOI and FS would be cut by 21% in President
budget. "Interesting" is not the word I would choose to describe 2011
planning for PTA.
Thomas V. Murphy
BLM - Medford District Fire Mgt. Officer
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
more in the round-robin 2/2:
OMB made a significant reduction in our DOI fuels budget, the department
has been negotiations for awhile with OMB. Who can anticipate this large of
reduction? Of course, it needs to go through Congress until we receive our
true allocations. It going to be interesting on how we decide to plan PTA.
Jane E. Arteaga
Detail- Community Protection Specialist
National Interagency Fire Center BLM FA-600
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
more in the round-robin 2/2:
I was just looking at this document and found that the 2010 budget will be
reduced by 44 million for 2011. It is on page 79. Have we anticipated
this? Or should we not be worried?
www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2011/assets/trs.pdf (869 K pdf file)
Kato Howard
State Fuels Management Specialist
Alaska Fire Service |
| 2/2 |
Office of the Secretary
02/02/2010 12:23
To: ALL FS
cc: wcts.confirmation@usda.gov
Subject: USDA's FY 2011 Budget
UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE
OFFICE OF THE SECRETARY
WASHINGTON, D.C. 20250
Yesterday, President Obama and I announced our proposed budget for Fiscal Year
2011, and I wanted to share with you the rationale behind our proposal.
This budget acknowledges the unsustainable debt accumulated over the past decade
and works to get our fiscal house in order. It uses taxpayer dollars wisely and
takes common-sense steps that many families and small businesses have been
forced to take with their own budgets. We are investing in American agriculture
and the American people without leaving them a mountain of debt.
Our proposed budget essentially freezes funding for discretionary programs at
the Fiscal Year 2010 level. However, limits we placed on select programs and
efforts to eliminate earmarks and one-time funding actually result in a bottom
line reduction to our discretionary budget authority of over $1 billion.
The budget also reflects the difficult economic climate of 2009, when more and
more Americans had to rely on USDA to help put food on the table, and the
challenges that rural communities have faced for decades grew more acute.
Because we care deeply about farmers and ranchers, this budget maintains the
agricultural safety net, while instituting some targeted reductions in farm
program payments. Just as importantly, this budget pursues priorities that will
have the greatest impact in our efforts to address the challenges facing rural
America and lay a new foundation for growth and prosperity.
As a whole, the budget is built on our four strategic priorities for the
Department:
- This budget will help rural communities create prosperity so they are
self-sustaining, economically thriving, and growing in population. We have
already taken important steps in this effort. With help from the Recovery
Act, we supported farmers and ranchers and helped rural businesses create
jobs. We made investments in broadband, renewable energy, hospitals, water
and waste water systems, and other critical infrastructure that will serve
as a lasting foundation to ensure the long-term economic health of families
in Rural America. This budget includes almost $26 billion to build on that
down payment and focuses on new opportunities presented by producing
renewable energy, developing local and regional food systems, capitalizing
on environmental markets and generating green jobs through recreation and
natural resource conservation.
- This budget promotes the production of food, feed, fiber, and fuel, for
the domestic and export market, as we work to strengthen the agricultural
economy for farmers and ranchers. America’s farmers and ranchers are the
most productive and efficient in the world, and this budget maintains the
policies that help maintain our nation’s food security. The budget increases
our funding for export promotion as part of President Obama’s National
Export Initiative and provides more support than ever before for competitive
research.
- We will ensure that all of America’s children have access to safe,
nutritious, and balanced meals. The budget fully funds the expected
requirements for the Department’s three major nutrition assistance programs
and proposes $10 billion over 10 years to strengthen the Child Nutrition and
WIC programs. It also invests over $1 billion for efforts to reduce
foodborne illnesses from USDA-inspected food products.
- We will ensure our national forests and private working lands are
conserved, restored, and made more resilient to climate change, while
enhancing our water resources. This budget will enroll more than 300 million
acres into Farm Bill conservation programs, an increase of 10% over 2010. It
will strategically target high priority watersheds for restoration and
conservation. And it focuses efforts on forest restoration and hazardous
fuels reduction where they will offer job-creation opportunities and reduce
the chance of catastrophic wildfires.
You can read about the budget in more detail
HERE.
There is no doubt that these tough times call for shared sacrifice. The American
people have tightened their belts and we have done so as well. We made tough
decisions, but this budget reflects our values, and common sense solutions to
the problems we face. It makes critical investments in the American people and
in the agricultural economy to set us on a path to prosperity as we move forward
in the 21st century.
Thanks so much all that you contribute to the Department,
Secretary Vilsack |
| 2/2 |
making the rounds, human factors and rappel accident: Attached is a
document recently published that speaks to human factors that affect situational
and visual awareness.
I believe it is important enough to ask you to read and discuss it with one
another. I would ask you to raise awareness
of the contributions to and pitfalls of change blindness to operational
activities. Challenge each other. Take nothing for
granted. Stay sharp.
Thanks,
-ed-
www.wildlandfire.com/docs/2010/safe/rappel-accident-hp.doc |
| 2/2 |
Joint Fire Science Program (JFSP) Smoke Science Plan Questionnaire Dear
Abercrombie:
Dr. Douglas Fox and I of Nine Points South Technical Pty. Ltd. are tasked to
develop a Smoke Management Research Plan for the Joint Fire Sciences Program (JFSP).
The purpose of the plan is to help guide funding for wildland fire/forest fire
smoke research for the next five to eight years by the United States Department
of Interior and Department of Agriculture's JFSP.
We have developed a questionnaire hoping to obtain input from a wide variety of
different stakeholders on the JFSP Smoke Science Plan. First, may we ask you to
take the survey? It only takes about 10 minutes to complete. Second, would you
be able to help us obtain input from others you work with in the air quality and
fire research community?
The link is:
www.surveymonkey.com/s/ZTH5BQS
We encourage people to share this link with whomever they think might like to
have input. So anyone who would like to share the link with somebody they know
is most welcome to do so.
Thank you very much,
Allen R. Riebau, PhD.
Nine Points South Technical Pty. Ltd |
| 2/2 |
Red Lights and Sirens in R5 I ran into some Smith River HS this morning at
breakfast and asked if they were in town for training.
"Yes."
"Leadership class?" I asked.
"No, Red Lights and Sirens training," they answered.
My husband who knows little about this issue (except for the BS lights and
sirens button on my desk).
<giggle> asked,
"Training? Don't you just push a button in your vehicle after making sure that
it's turned on?" <hahahaha>
So it appears that R5 will continue to have red lights and sirens at least
for now, or at least on our forest.
Hmmmmm, bet that ate into some travel allotment.... Smith River NRA is up by
the Oregon border, an hour
to an hour and a half driving time.
Regardless, I'm glad to see R5 will continue using red lights and sirens.
Good for Chief Forester Randy Moore.
Mellie |
| 2/2 |
Hope this is a typo:
On J. Pena's letter on the retention bonus remaining, he stated the the new
salary plan would be:
"We are on track to have the supplemental pay proposal drafted for review by
June 1, 2020. "
2020??, really...2020???
-MJ |
| 2/1 |
Did Pena make a typo on his extension-'o-retention message, or did he really
mean that the supplemental
pay proposal draft isn't due until June 2020? If so, that ain't much of a
supplement...
Pyro |
| 2/1 |
Re: redaction law. If there was a new law passed, I am unaware of it. I raised this question with the Chief and the National Fire
Director in 2004, and was told it was due to an opinion that the Privacy Act required the redaction. I didn't
buy that then, and I don't buy that now. The redactions are detrimental to understanding the chain of events;
they are an attempt to conceal historical facts; and they are ludicrous in that it is (and should be) public
knowledge as to the identity of certain figures eg. "The district ranger (redacted) was attending a meeting".
Neither person could tell me why previous reports did not violate the Privacy Act.
OFG
Thanks OFG. Ab.
|
| 2/1 |
Don't forget to answer our Hotlist Poll:
Vote for the 2009 Top 10 IA Thread Starters! Ab. |
| 2/1 |
Does anyone know hat law it was that congress passed that mandated redaction
of names in investigative reports, etc.
Cramer (2003, released 2004) was the first I remember that had all the
redactions...Ab. |
| 2/1 |
Cal Fire exam info: Attached is the latest regarding exams and lists.
CAL FIRE Exam info (77 K pdf file)
normbc9 |
| 2/1 |
Ab,
I recently received a list of recruitment announcements for NV Division of
Forestry fire jobs.
Interested applicants need to go to the NDOP job search page:
https://nvapps.state.nv.us/NEATS/Recruiting/ViewJobsHome.aep and search
within it.
These NDF recruitments are open for varying lengths of time; if interested,
check 'em out for details.
Good Luck, and Be Safe.
PyroPyro |
| 2/1 |
Tim Stubbs: Tim will be missed from this world on numerous fronts, but his
passion for firefighting safety and care of firefighters in
the trenches will be missed most of all. I never fought fire with Tim but I have
had the great privilege to teach S-490
with Tim on numerous occasions in the late nineties and into the last decade. It
is ironic and very sad that Tim passed
the very week that many who had known and were brought into our cadre by Tim
were gathered in Las Cruces
teaching a 490 class.
Vaya con dios mi amigo.
John Holcomb |
| 2/1 |
Will the OV-10 ride again? WOW maybe the federal side could aquire some of
these new aircraft???
Signed, Look Ahead!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
making the rounds:
OV-10X Design photo
Also Cal Fire has just acquired three OV-10D, with four bladed props on 1040
hp turbines.
They are going to build them up as spares and relief aircraft when multiple
fires hit statewide.
Plus they received 19 30' seatrains full of new spare OV-10 A-D parts, wheels
and tires.
OV-10D w/3 blade prop
OV-10D
General characteristics
Crew: 2
Length: 44 ft 0 in (13.41 m)
Wingspan: 40 ft 0 in (12.19 m)
Height: 15 ft 2 in (4.62 m)
Wing area: 290.95 ft² (27.03 m²)
Empty weight: 6,893 lb (3,127 kg)
Loaded weight: 9,908 lb (4,494 kg)
Max takeoff weight: 14,444 lb (6,552 kg)
Powerplant: 2× Garrett T76-G-420/421 turboprop, 1,040 hp (775.5 kW)
each
Tailplane Span 14 ft, 7 in (4.45 m)
Performance
Maximum speed: 298 mph (479 km/h)
Range: 1,382 mi (2,224 km)
Service ceiling: 30,000 ft (9,159 m)
Will the OV-10 ride again? from
www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/2009/01/will-the-ov-10-ride-again.html
fair use disclaimer |
| 2/1 |
Remember. Practice your home escape plan! DH, fire marshall
Layton City Fire Department, UT |
| 2/1 |
going round-robin, from several people: Subject: FY 2010 Firefighter
Retention Allowance
2010 Retention Bonus Extension
Forest Supervisors and Directors,
I want to let you know that Randy approved an one-year extension for the 10%
retention allowance for GS-5 thru 8 firefighters region-wide. The extension will
be effective in March, with no break in coverage, for one more year. We will be
noticing employees this week. Affected employees will receive individual letters
informing them of this decision.
The evaluation of the first year was inconclusive in the effectiveness of the
bonus. Other factors that may have affected the retention outcome are the change
we made in back-fill hiring in our fire hiring, the overall economy, and the
increase in tour. Therefore, we decided to extend it to see if we can detect a
direct effect and have time to complete a new supplemental pay proposal. We are
on track to have the supplemental pay proposal drafted for review by June 1,
2020.
Thanks, Jim (Peña) |
| 2/1 |
Firefighter retention continued --- OMB feedback on what has gone forward is
in the attached document Attached are 4 documents that we believe update
everyone on the current status and address the questions asked by (1) Rachael
Taylor, Senate Approps. Committee and (2) OMB - John Pasquintino. The papers
reflect specific actions and decisions and timeframes that R5 is committed to. I
am also copying WO-FAM leadership with these documents. We did not attempt to
edit the WO Paper that went to OMB that was annotated by John P. Our belief is
that this briefing paper and attachments provide the context and support the
actions being taken.
1. Updated
Briefing Paper with summary table (182 K doc file) of the Congressional
funding and Staffing (Planned, Current and Vacant Temporary and permanent
Positions:
2.
Attachment 1a (182 K xls file) -- Firefighter Attrition and Resignation Data
from 1997-2009 (xcel spreadsheet file)
3.
Attachment 1 (522 K pdf file) - R5 Regional Forester Approval of Firefighter
Retention Bonuses (2009 and 2010) with attached attrition, resignation, and exit
interview information on "What would it take for you to stay or return?".
4.
Attachment 2 (522 K pdf file) -- Assessment of Alternatives for Modifying or
Developing a new Wildland Fire Technician Series
John |
| 2/1 |
The 2010 IRPG is available for purchase through the Great Basin Cache System
at the National Interagency Fire Center at
www.nwcg.gov/pms/pubs/pubs.htm#cat.
The Great Basin Cache System will be closed for inventory and transitioning to a
new cache tracking system from March 1, 2010
until approximately April 30, 2010. Orders to the cache should be submitted
prior to the end of February to receive training
materials for classes.
The IRPGs cost $1.28, and the NFES Number is 1077
IRPG can also be accessed on the web at:
www.wildfirelessons.net/documents/nfes1077.pdf |
| 2/1 |
It was with great sadness that I read of Tim Stubb's passing yesterday. I
had not been in electronic touch since
mid January. Seems like it was just yesterday I was on the phone with Tim and he
was chiding me to attend the
R3 ATGS refresher with him. Wow... hit me like a ton of bricks.
Don, thanks for posting Paul Gleason's memorial poem.. You are correct... Tim
and Paul are laying on that
bench beside that cool mountain stream...
--
Tony Duprey |
| 1/31 |
Abs & All,
I was saddened to read about the death of Tim Stubbs. I never got to meet Tim in
person, but last September he called me
out of the blue to discuss a proposal I had shared on They Said. It didn't take
me long to figure out he was the real deal; a
salty old fire dog who was also a scholar with a passion for sharing what he
knew. We wound up having a couple of very
long conversations about extreme fire behavior and threat recognition, and
exchanged a few private emails on the subject
afterward.
I know Tim was really enjoying the string of extreme fire behavior dialogue that
was happening last fall on wildland fire.com;
he had a link to it on his own fire behavior website, fbanservices.com.
My deepest sympathies to Tim's family and friends.
Tim Lynch |
| 1/30 |
re: 'Golden Hour' and Med Evac Plans
As an EMT and fire fighting professional, I am disappointed that Med Evac Plans
are not already in place. I have written plans for Forest and Regional Level
programs that are probably sitting somewhere in a recycle bin. I do know that
most Forest Supervisors have no idea how to handle medical or other emergency
situations. One only has to look at recent emergencies to know that as an Agency
we lack any ability to coordinate with outside programs. Of course any plan
written that is not known to the masses and practiced is as worthless as the
paper it is written on. I seriously doubt that they'll work with locals or EMS
or find people who know what it is like to work in the field. This will only
become an exercise in 'Cover Your Ass' by formulating something that looks good
on paper to be filed away.
Firefighter safety? R3 can't put red lights or sirens on their response
vehicles. Training is limited. AgLearn is a joke. Resources and equipment are
scarce and it looks like they are going to gut the rappel program.
We're back to what was said before. The FS isn't going to do the right thing, so
the people on the ground have to be the ones ready, willing and able to handle
whatever may happen. Get trained, get equipped and be smart. Just don't count on
the FS helping.
Aardvark |
| 1/30 |
I just got back from doing L-381 in Missoula and was devastated to hear of
Tim Stubbs' passing from Casey.
As many of you who knew him are aware, Tim always called it like it was,
regardless of political fallout or
adverse personal consequences that resulted from his forthright and honest
approach.
Great air attack, FBAN, stalwart member of ADFA, a musician who streamed my
radio shows regularly
on the internet and never failed to give a call to the station.
He will be sorely missed, and I will miss him especially.
Regards,
Hugh Carson |
| 1/30 |
Model 48 Wheel: The Groundpig learned that fire still burns uphill on the
48. Back at Little-T around 1970’s.
I still hate that little wheel!!!
GP |
| 1/30 |
Med Evac plans for the golden hour: The Regional Safety does not know
anything about Medical evacuation and response plans, nor does he
do anything but pass his work on to others, in my opinion. (Retirement time...)
I think it would be good
to get Andy Palmer's dad who is a MD to share his thoughts. When I spoke with
him over several days
last year he had some pretty clear, logical medical guidelines for rapidly
dealing with emergencies on the
line.
We need the best and brightest and most motivated individuals heading this
up.
Mellie |
| 1/30 |
Model 48 computer: Thanks Doug.
I actually have one; I think I got it when I took S-390 back in 1975. Just
looking for lesson plan
material or perhaps a guidebook or manual which hopefully covers the basis and
origin of it.
Very best regards,
Marty Alexander |
| 1/30 |
Model 48 computer, aka Whiz Wheel: Marty
I have the one I used to teach how to use it. The Region had a large
one 5 ft. in diameter that we used. I have not seen any in my travels
but there must be someone who knows where you could find one to
obtain.
Regards
Doug Campbell |
| 1/30 |
I had a good chuckle the other day. I over heard a conversation with a Line
Officer and a Staff Officer. One of them said "you know, the Chief (Chief of the
FS that is) really wants us to work on improving communications up and down the
ranks with all employees, we need to figure this out and work on this".
(Commence with Chuckle)
I pondered the comments for a while and thought to myself, this is not rocket
science, HELLO, not to hard to figure out boys, got email addresses, got a
mailing list, hit send button, email goes to employee. WOW, now you don't need
to go out and contract with that communications firm to learn how to improved
communications. You just saved $100,000.
If they only listened to OA a decade or so ago, problem would have been solved.
Then I thought, well since you can't figure this out, we will. Forest Service,
et al, should just send all letters fire and incident management related to
wlf.com. All within the Rank and File will then have a one stop portal to see
the multitude of official correspondence that affects them as a Wildland
Firefighter. What a genius, haw.
My message back to the Chief of the FS and Line is, "We got your back Brother
until you figure out the location of those elusive mailing lists and that darn
send button".
Here's another one that went to your Forest Supervisor and chances are didn't
make it to you. Might be a good idea for those Forest Supervisors to ask for
some feedback from those Firefighter SME's for your plan. You know the ones in
the field that will either provide direct care for the medical incident or
direct support to medical emergency responders. Just a thought Line..........
Letterman........... Enjoy
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Date: January 21, 2010
Subject: "Golden Hour" Evacuation or Response Plans
To: Forest Supervisors
Medical evacuation and response plans are designed to ensure persons who are
victims of trauma are provided adequate care in time to make a difference.
Emergency responders refer to the “golden hour” as the brief window of time in
which the lives of a majority of critically injured trauma patients can be saved
if definitive treatment is provided. The golden hour begins at the moment of
injury and ends with the necessary life-saving intervention. Which means trauma
is “time sensitive”, and there is no time to waste.
Because the landscape within which our employees work is so different upon and
across all 18-National Forests, I want every Forest Supervisor to develop a plan
by June 1 that meets the intent of connecting employee trauma victims to
adequate medical care within the golden hour across the diversity of your
forests. I leave to your discretion how this will be done but encourage you to
consider a number of contingencies, not relying on one method alone.
It is my expectation that these plans will be shared with Incident Management
Teams during team in-briefings and that you require their use during incident
management operations.
Once you have completed your plans, I would ask that you practice their use on
every Ranger District through simulation or other means. I would appreciate an
invitation to observe and participate in these exercises.
There are a few examples of these plans out there. Please contact Gene Smalley
for more information.
Thank you for your continuing commitment to the safety and well-being of our
employees.
/s/ James M. Peña (for)
RANDY MOORE
Regional Forester
cc: Gene Smalley
Peter Tolosano
SME=Subject Matter Experts |
| 1/30 |
Passing of Bob O’Connor: Ab,
I have posted the thread on facebook from the website (after reading it). We
moved to Bouquet Canyon in 1968 from Claremont. My dad was the patrolman at that
small 4 room oak house that used to stand next to the Inn. We moved down to the
Texas Canyon Station while I was in Jr. High School, 70 or 71. We were there
when Ron Smith, Ray Guardado and Bill "Willy" Smith were. I remember most of the
Zuni hotshots, but in particular "Herman" who taught me how to play pool in the
barracks. I also remember Judy Ferrel the cook for the crew. As a teenager, I
hiked the firebreaks and ridges all over that canyon and went with my dad many
times up to the lookout on Sierra Paloma ridge. We used to bring groceries to "charlie"
don't recall his last name but he had a glass eye. Willie Smith taught me to
drive the switchbacks in a VW baja up near "the falls" campground.
We moved to Oak Flat in 1974, 75. My dad worked with the Tanker Crew there. I
was a rebellious young man at that time so I didn't get to involved but I loved
the terrain and the ridges there. My Dad had it rough then, and after the tour
at Oak Flat he left fire suppression and moved into Recreation at Crystal Lake.
I think he started out at Dalton with the hotshots back in the early 60's. He
was driving back and forth from Claremont when I was younger. I have HS pins
from Dalton as well as Redmond. Also have a Zuni Hardhat and his fire vest from
the Saugus District. My most memorable story told by him, was a fire he was on
where the Cat Operator had to scoop a couple of digs so they could crawl under
it. Seems a wind shift had brought the fire back at them so they prayed under
the Caterpillar while the flash passed over them. He showed me the burn holes in
his underwear which became the inspiration for the poem I wrote.
I miss him and my Mom both. All for now.
I want to thank you for putting the passing of my Dad on the website, I thought
his fellow warriors of wildfire should know. We (Dad and I) became close after I
became a father myself (as most do). Now, I am he and proud to be... So again,
thank you so much!
Tony O'Connor
Nice memories, Tony, thank you. Ab. |
| 1/30 |
Doug Campbell sent this to me as he sends many communications
illustrating European and worldwide developments in wildland firefighting. I'd
like to share it here. European Firefighters have embraced CPS language and
tactics for evaluating fire situationally from the ground (as did Tim Stubbs who
viewed iot as a critical tool in the FBAN toolbox).
Doug is in his 70s and is well and truly retired. He offers his CPS or
Fire Signature Prediction Method free to any an all that want to use it and
incorporate it into their firefighting tactics around the world. (Actually, he's
done this for years.) Much of his LANGUAGE for conveying what the fire is doing
and is likely to do has been incorporated into wildland firefighting courses and
firefighting books by authors other than Doug in the last 10 years. Terms
include those found here:
CPS: Glossary of Terms and Doug's website:
www.dougsfire.com/
and a must-read paper by Doug Campbell and Bruce Schubert
THE
ART OF WILDLAND FIREFIGHTING Ab.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Video Bosa, Sardinia, Italy 2009:
Dear Doug,
Here's attached the link with the Fire Paradox page where there are 4 movies of
the summer base of Bosa (Sardinia) where operationals firefighters meet with
Universities and firefighters of Spain, Italy, Morocco, Poland, France.
Text are in english and other languages are substituted.
So I think that for you is a good opportunity to know what we're doing in
improving fire fighting.
Best regards.
Giuseppe
On ven 29/01/10 5:31, François Binggeli <francois.binggeli@snip> wrote:
Video Bosa 2009:
Queridos amigos,
El dos primeros vídeo sobre Bosa 2009 están disponibles:
- una síntesis : http://www.fireparadox.org/interact.php [1]
- la versión completa de este rico momento de vida profesional y
personal :
http://www.fireparadox.org/professionnals_exchange.php [2]
Chers amis,
Les deux premières video sur Bosa 2009 sont disponibles :
- une synthèse
- la version complète de ce riche moment de vie
professionnelle et personnelle
François
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
www.fireparadox.org/interact.php with short Video from the Fire Paradox Base
in Bosa, Sardinia, Italy, noted as [1] above
from the FireParadox website, link above:
Sometimes breaking away from conventional fire fighting methods is
necessary
What does it mean to interact differently?
* To exchange and transfer the knowledge accumulated by fire experts
The creation of a global knowledge database, starting with information
provided by fire fighting experts and practitioners.
www.fireparadox.org/professionnals_exchange.php with Video (4 parts) of
approx 32 min duration, noted as [2] above
from the professional exchange page, link above:
During the summer 2009, the fourth
operational and scientific international gathers 80 operational, scientists
and students in Bosa, Sardinia - Italy, one month after an episode of very
large wildfires.
Personnel of fight and scientists works on the propagation dynamics of these
wildfire, the many suppression fires carried out, the capacity of fire
resistance of the trees, the territorial correlation between agriculture,
breeding, fire behavior and fight methods. Education acts and research
orientations supplement this multi-field synergy. This rich professional
experiment from two weeks is presented with the contribution of the
participants who synthesize conclusions and prospects.
|
| 1/30 |
Historical Question for Wildland Firefighter Readership Dear Ab:
I'm wondering if anyone out there has any information on the USFS Region 5
Model 48 Computer. I believe it was
produced in the 60s based on spread rates from individual fire reports but I'd
like to get confirmation.
Thanks very much in advance for any responses. Greatly appreciated.
I'm attaching a scan of the "Whiz
Wheel" as I believe it was called.
Marty Alexander |
| 1/30 |
Re Passing of Tim Stubbs; memory of Paul Gleason Ab,
I just read the post from Charlie Possee about Tim passing away. I too, as many
others are deeply saddened. I had the rare opportunity to work with Tim and
Charlie a couple years ago in Tucson. They were delivering the Paul Gleason
version of S-490, Advanced Fire Behavior. It was a BETA test and I was asked to
sit in as an independent review and audit of the course. I submitted a 20 page
report at the end of the session.
Tim was welcoming and very easy to work with, and I was then, and still am
today, professionally impressed with his keen knowledge of numbers, statistics
and his “down home” style in communicating complex and technical information to
his students. At the end of each day, we would conduct an AAR and discuss the
day’s events and tomorrows plans, then adjourn to the lounge, where Tim and
Charlie would pull out guitar’s and Tim’s case of flutes, and just start playing
music. Tim kept in email contact with me since then, always inquisitive about
fire behavior, politics or just how I was doing.
Just before Paul Gleason passed away, he asked us all to visit him someday. He
said we could find him sitting on a grassy bench a few feet above a small
mountain creek. I’d like to think he has Tim’s company now.
Thank you, Tim. For everything.
Don Will
Tahoe National Forest
Deputy Chief (Ret.)
Ref:
Paul Gleason's historical letter Nice image. |
| 1/30 |
Ab emailed Tony O'Connor with questions about Bob's age and his and mom's
duty postings. Here's his reply:
My dad was 72 years young. He retired from the Forest Service in 1999, as the recreation supervisor at crystal lake.
He and my mother were joined (in ash) at Camp Williams (east fork San Gorgonio. Mtns) this past year. My Mom
was the mail carrier in the S.G. Mtns for 17 years.
Thank you for emailing back. Tony
Tony, thanks for sharing anything you'd like to share. This site is a
historical repository among other things. Ab.
|
| 1/30 |
NMairbear…
So many nights I sat angry at my computer trying to wrap my mind around the
dynamics of this occupation ….
keyboard in front of me, Johnny Walker at my side…NMairbear…yac…lobo…ember…OA…and
many
others, typing into the wee hours…my friends whom I've never met face to face,
yet looked forward to
"speaking" with whenever time permitted…
The good ol' chat room…I just realized how badly I miss it...
I'll miss chatting about backpacking in the Sierra Nevada backcountry with my
friend. I'll miss his advice
and perspective. He's given me his ear and never judged me harshly while putting
me in my place. He always
greeted me with a "!"
I never knew him as Tim Stubbs but now I will never forget.
Rest in peace NM…Thanks for being my friend…I will miss you.
My heartfelt condolences go out to Tim's family…
Most Sincerely,
-Joatmon
P.S. - If you are reading this, check out the chat room any night that you
remember to do so, just to see who is
there…lets bring the chat room back to life!...NM would LOVE it… |
| 1/29 |
I spent last week with Tim engaged in his second love – music. We took his
camp trailer from Carlsbad down
to Terlingua, Texas and played music for four days on The Porch in the warm sun.
I have attached a
picture with
Tim and his beloved flute plus a few friends. I’m glad he had a great week.
Charlie Possee
Johnson City, TennesseeThanks, Charlie. I'm glad he did too. Ab. |
| 1/29 |
Hey All, We have a survey thread. Please go
vote for the best hotlist poster.
Here's Original Ab's note:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you missed it on the way in, please read the announcement at the top of
the General Discussion forum before voting. Here's a shortcut:
Read Me First
Your vote on this poll is important and highly appreciated!
OA
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Best IA size-up poster... who do you think?
Ab. |
| 1/29 |
Re: FS is Loosening Contractor standards: Hi Ab,
I would like to have this person who feel let down contact me, I too am upset
at these new rules and there are
ways to possible get changes made by talking with LuAnn and Kermadine, if enough
people complain. Can you
send him, or her my info. (snipped email address) Also the new rule does not
require tender drivers to even take
the walk test anymore.
Thanks
Jim
Thanks Jim, will pass your contact info to Let Down. Ab. |
| 1/29 |
Re Passing of Robert James O’Connor: I didn't know Bob passed away until now & probably a lot of other people
didn't know either. I will pass your
web page link to others. I worked for Bob in 1976 & 77 at Oak Flat. If you would
Please pass along my e-mail
address to his son so I can share some funny stories with him. Also, I wonder
what the status is on Bob's brother
Dick is now.
Thanks Very Much
Bruce
Good to hear from you Bruce. Will pass your contact info to Anthony. Ab. |
| 1/29 |
Passing of Tim Stubbs: Ab,
I am absolutely shocked and saddened to hear of Tim Stubbs passing. I've known
Tim for over 17 yrs - ever since
I was the IA Dispatcher for Roswell BLM and Tim was the FMO at Carlsbad National
Park.
Over the years I've run into him on various fires around the country and it was
always fun to catch up on news and
hear Tim's unique thoughts (and opinions) on everything from fires to politics.
Tim was a very intellectual person who, with his longish hair and way of
dressing, really surprised people. He really
had a way with numbers, figures and stats and loved working as an FBAN and also
his beloved ATGS work.
He sometimes became very disgruntled with working as an AD after he retired, and
often threatened to quit going
out, but his commitment to the safety of firefighters in the air and on the
ground wouldn't let him deprive the fire
community of his years of expertise.
He was such an important part of the fire community, it just won't be the same
without him. My heartfelt sympathy
goes to his family and friends - he will be missed by all of us.
Marcy |
| 1/29 |
Passing of Tim Stubbs aka NMAirBear: Dear Ab,
Unfortunately I seem to find myself setting up shots in remembrance of old
friends. Some I knew and some I didn't.
I never had the honor of meeting NMairbear, but shall miss his knowledge and
expertise.
Tonight, I raise yet another shot to a great man, a great firefighter, and a
great AIRBEAR.
I've always said the following prayer for helitack and any Fire Aircraft,
"Fly long, and fly safe.......and may God bless you S.O.B.'s.......(Souls on
Board).......
Fly long................ NMAirBear............God bless you
sign me.....
CDF FIre Captain |
| 1/29 |
Fed Firefighter Legislation:
Dear Just Curious:
On January 27th I submitted a post on TheySaid regarding the liability section
of our legislation and the thought process of why the language reads the way it
does. Please take a look at that post and if it doesn't answer your questions,
please feel free to email me directly at
cjudd@fwfsa.org and I'll try to explain further.
With respect to your questions on portal to portal compensation: The FWFSA's
initial work on the PTP issue started perhaps nearly a decade ago under the
FWFSA's leadership of then President Kent Swartzlander. He and I and others from
the FWFSA spent many days in DC and many emails back & forth to congressional
staff trying to put together adequate language to address the complexities of
the issue.
From the earliest time the effort & intent of any PTP legislation was to provide
such compensation for all federal land management agency employees who respond
to and support "emergency incidents." The legislation continually refers to
"wildland firefighters" but the definition of wildland firefighter for this
legislation not only includes those eligible for federal firefighter retirement
benefits but "an employee of a federal land management agency who is assigned to
support wildland fire suppression activities." We fully expect those in the
militia and others who are also on these incidents in excess of 24 hours will be
included. In fact in 2005 when the Congressional Budget Office used some data
from the Forest Service to calculate the costs of PTP under our previous
legislation, the data included all manner of employees on such incidents.
That language would seem to suggest that PTP would only be compensable under
wildland fire suppression incidents. However under the actual "Pay & Benefits"
section of the bill, it states "...inclusive of all time the firefighter (again
taking into consideration the aforementioned definition of wildland firefighter)
is away from their official duty station assigned to an emergency incident, in
support of an emergency incident, or pre-positioned for emergency response..."
In other words, it is our expectation that PTP will not be limited to just those
that qualify for federal firefighter retirement and will not be limited to just
wildfire incidents.
THAT BEING SAID: I have also posted here on previous occasions that early '90s
case law found in favor of the National Federation of Federal Employees (NFFE)
and against the Office of Personnel Management (OPM) in a case that greatly
expanded the definition of wildland firefighter. This case opened up the
opportunity for many in the militia or those with firefighting as a secondary
position to petition OPM for eligibility for federal firefighter retirement
benefits.
Obviously neither the federal land management agencies nor OPM did, or ever has
publicized the decision. I would surmise there are many out there (and I know
many who have successfully petitioned OPM for eligibility) eligible but who
assume they don't qualify. If anyone even remotely thinks they might be eligible
for federal firefighter retirement benefits, I would pursue the matter through
OPM.
Certainly the cost of PTP for every federal employee on such incidents would be
greater than if we tried to limit such compensation only to those eligible for
firefighter retirement. However seeking it for all is the right thing to do.
And, if somehow we can get Line Officers to stop raiding FIRE preparedness
appropriations and spending it on things like ASC and other non-fire projects,
sufficient preparedness resources would be in place to keep fire incidents
smaller and in turn the number of incidents (fire related anyway) in which PTP
would be payable, would be further reduced.
The bottom line is that the amount of money DOI and the USDA get from Congress
for suppression, fuels and preparedness is sufficient to provide PTP and the
other benefits this bill calls for. We are not necessarily seeking a new big
bunch of money to pay for all this. Yes, we included language for $25 million in
PTP pilot program "seed" money. That is pocket change in relation to the overall
suppression budget. With the inclusion of the FLAME Act language in the Interior
Appropriations bill, more money for catastrophic wildfires will be available.
The real issue is the fiscal management of those FIRE dollars. Personally, I
believe the funds received by Congress can and should be spent more
intelligently and (preparing for the flaming arrows) I firmly believe that
federal dollars ought to go to the feds first.
Sorry for the length of this. Hope it answered your questions.
Casey Judd
Business Manager
FWFSA |
| 1/29 |
In memory of Robert James O’Connor who died July 28, 2009: He has departed
for the Fire Camp in Heaven in July of 2009. “God rest his weary soul”
Robert James O’Connor, a Thirty Two year veteran of the USFS (most of it on the
Angeles NF)
I am his son, a 20 year US Marine Corps Veteran and this is for my father:
He served by my recollection with the Texas Canyon Hotshots, was the Bouquet
Canyon Patrol Ranger,
Texas Canyon Crew Forman, Oak Flat Crew Forman, Crystal Lake Recreation
Supervisor, and many
I know nothing about.
He had stories of brave and scary brushes with near death. He would come home
stinking of smoke and
bloodshot eyed on many a day in my 18 years being raised by him and my mother
(whom departed the
preceding fall). I wrote the following for him and my sisters, all of my family
has it (including my uncle, a
retired USFS firefighter as well):
Do with it what you will.
Anthony W. O’Connor
GySgt USMC (ret.)
RANGER BOB
Soot black faces with clothes a smelly muss
Hair sweaty so full of dirt ready just to fuss
Burn holes in the drawers a cigarette a glow
Coughing, sputtering and just raring to go
Siren wailing adrenalin pumping flying low
Mountain burning wind blowing a red glow
Water drops hot shots hop all fired up now
Swinging blades moving dirt like a plow
Wind a shifting firestorm rising never any rain
Dozer moving digging faster to avoid the pain
Crawling under praying for life as fire roars
Fire passes soot black faces holes in drawers
Back to camp dog ass tired ready for a rest
Beat the beast had the feast head for the nest
Sirens wail time to bail back for round two
On the truck grab the rucs, helmet and chew
Dad (07/28/09)
Our Condolences, Anthony.
If anyone has stories to share of Bob O'Connor, please let us know. Anthony, do
you know approximately when he was a
Texas Canyon Hotshot? Ab. |
| 1/29 |
FS Loosening Contractor standards: Ab.
You may post this with out my name in they said and the Hotlist. I know I may be
opening up a door for some contractor criticism, however we all need to be
educated on what kind of trash is being done up here in Region 6.
I too am sad to hear about the passing of the airbear. We had many PMs
over the years and I got to hear him over head once :) Now he is up above
looking out for all of us.
It is with great sickness that I am writing this. I attended an R6 preseason
contractors' meeting this last week and found that the FS in all of their
infinite wisdom is taking a huge step backwards in their contracting program.
Specifically they are going very lax in their requirements for contractors. It
is extremely frustrating to us contractors that have worked long and hard with
our heads held high to raise the standards.
Some of the backward changes:
- Previously our annual inspections were performed by a company without
conflict of interest that was chosen by the R6 Forest Service. Now, the
annual inspections are to be done by a "qualified" mechanic that we find and
hire independently of the Forest Service.
- Our weight tickets are not verified at the scales.
- Our pack tests MAY or MAY NOT be monitored.
- Tenders no longer will have to carry a spare tire (this is because in
some other region they are not required to have a spare tire and in typical
Government form they wouldn't want them to step up to the plate, but rather
have us lower our standards as to accept the other region).
Over the past several years here in R6 we have been able to weed out the poor
performing contractors, fly by night folks and those in it just for a buck. We
had made great strides in providing a professional service with professional
personnel and equipment. This is not meant as an outright jab, however in
general, compared to other regions, R6 provides some very nice contract
equipment and crews which we can assume are safe due to oversight requirements !
Now it seems to me like the FS in R6 is taking the easy road out on this one by
not holding up the high standards we have struggled to develop and
uphold!
Pissed and let down! |
| 1/29 |
Tim Stubbs Passing: My heartfelt condolences to Tim's family. He was a
good friend.
Mellie |
| 1/29 |
Behind the Lines film: Hi Ab!
Just wanted to let you know that "Behind the Lines" was accepted into the Santa
Barbara International Film Festival and will be playing on February 8th and
14th. More information on my website:
http://tinyurl.com/FireFilm or the festival's site:
www.sbiff.org
Best,
Jennie Reinish |
| 1/29 |
Tim Stubbs Passing:
A recent photo of Tim.
Hotlist thread for Tim.
I'm collecting photos and career info on Tim. If you have any, please send
them in. Ab. |
| 1/29 |
Ab,
I previously sent you the State Personnel Board's (SPB) drubbing of CALFIRE over
their abysmal handling of the
Fire Captain exam and am saddened to provide more salt into the wound today.
Attached is the SPB Resolution abolishing the Fire Apparatus Engineer (FAE) and
Firefighter II (FF II) lists. I have
also attached a letter from a Sacramento person passing on the bad news to the
rest of CALFIRE. As she states
The SPB suspended CALFIRE's examination delegation and abolished five of its
lists.
Read the attached PDF files and weep. Thanks for nothing Sacramento. One
question I have, do any of you at
CALFIRE's Sacramento Headquarters work for CALFIRE?
HUUFC
Appeal FC Exam (652 K pdf file, 16 pages)
FFII and FAE (331 K pdf file, )
examination information (77 K pdf file) |
| 1/29 |
Tim Stubbs (nmairbear),
I have followed his posts here and have valued his contributions to the
community with his wisdom and knowledge.
Some of his legacy will live on in the archives of this website.
My heartfelt condolences goes out to his family and friends. Just know that this
loss is felt throughout the wildland
firefighting family.
God be with you Tim,
Tom |
| 1/29 |
Ab:
I am absolutely heartsick and shocked over the loss of our FWFSA member Tim
Stubbs. As someone who is still
recovering from major open heart surgery, the loss of several friends to heart
attacks during that time reinforces the
fact of just how fleeting life is.
Tim was a huge voice in the wildland firefighting community to be reckoned with.
His silence will be deafening. Our
prayers and thoughts to his family and loved ones and all who knew him.
Casey |
| 1/29 |
Ab,
My condolences to Tim's' family on his passing. I spent time on many
fires with Tim, and he always wanted to do what was best for the resources.
Thanks,
Mark |
| 1/29 |
Very sad news, Tim Stubbs passing, our NMAirBear is gone... Tim Stubbs,
ATGS and FBAN, died of a massive heart attack Thursday in Albuquerque, NM .
He had been attending the annual ATGS refresher course and was at dinner with
his co workers
when the attack occurred. Tim was retired from the National Park Service and
frequent
contributor to They Said.
Boo
What a shock. Condolences in the deepest sense of the word to all of us. I
spoke with Tim just last week. Truly sad loss for the wildland fire community,
his family and friends. Ab. |
| 1/29 |
update on rappel... Hi folks,
As most of you know, I'm involved with the rappel standardization effort as
mandated by Deputy Chief Hubbard in letter to Fire Director Harbour dated
December 17, 2009. As almost all of you know as well, the process to standardize
the rappel program began in earnest in August of 2009, fueled in large part by
the tragic fatality last summer. To date, the standardization effort is
progressing very well. Our target of having the rappel risk assessment done,
hazards enumerated, mitigations identified, and a package compiled for senior
leadership by spring appears achievable. The purpose of the package is to
factually present where we are in the standardization process, outline
programmatic weakness and impediments to standardization, and make
recommendations of how to proceed for 2010 and beyond.
As part of the standardization process, two groups have been convening to
complete various tasks. The two groups are the Interagency Helicopter Rappel
Working Group (IHRWG), and a group of senior rappel check spotters. Both groups
have thus far been instrumental in moving us forward with standardization.
As an off-shoot to the rappel standardization effort, a few weeks ago the IHRWG
met in Boise and drafted an "Issue Paper" outlining a comprehensive list of
issues currently being worked on within the rappel community. Like any specialty
fire and aviation group, this group exists to track all major and minor
programmatic issues and deficiencies. It should be noted that at the time the
IHRWG drafted their paper, they were not privy to the rappel risk assessment,
associated hazards, and most importantly the identified risk mitigations
associated with rappel. Now that we’re further along in the process, I’m
suggesting that both groups sit through an in-depth review of the risk
assessment headed by National Aviation Safety Manger Ron Hanks so that they have
access to the same information I and others leading this effort have had.
As was outlined in the IHRWG paper, a few years ago the rappel community
recognized through their quality assurance inspections a significant increase in
the incidence of defects of the descent equipment. Through close work with the
manufacturer and by applying mitigating measures, the rappel community has been
able to continue safe operations with the current equipment. However, because of
the questionable quality control by the manufacturer, we have no assurance that
we can continue to rely on this manufacturer and equipment. Missoula Technology
and Development Center has been working on a replacement system, and we are
confident that we will make progress in the evaluation of new descent equipment
in the next several months.
In the paper drafted by the IHRWG, the group offered three short-term
recommendations for the rappel program: 1) Discontinue rappel for 2010 w/ the
goal of commencing rappel in 2011; 2) Stand up a portion of rappel programs
using only Bell medium helicopters; 3) Continue to work toward restoring the
current rappel program. Their preferred recommended alternative was number 1.
The IHRWG paper has been circulated through the fire and aviation community, and
has generated many questions and concerns. Here are the facts:
- No decision has been made with respect to rappel operations in 2010 -
that decision will be made by the Chief, probably in conjunction with the
rappeller fatality report. The conservative approach would be to assume the
agency will not rappel until a viable package is submitted to senior leaders
justifying rappel as beneficial to the agency (i.e. all risks mitigated)
balanced against employee exposure.
- It is premature to consider offering recommendations to senior
leadership as to our readiness to rappel given that we're in the month of
January with many identified and planned standardization tasks yet to be
completed before spring.
- Although the IHRWG issue paper outlines many programmatic weaknesses,
there is a substantial effort underway to mitigate each deficiency (even if
temporarily) prior to field season 2010.
- Whether the USFS rappels or not in 2010 and beyond, no helicopters are
being eliminated. Helitack is a viable option.
- The effort to vet the new rappel system (rope and descent control
device) is proceeding rapidly.
I know there are many rumors and much conjecture swirling through our ranks
regarding the rappel program. I am confident in our Agency's resolve to make
this program better, and ask each of you to stick with the facts and help us
with this process. I'm happy to answer any questions.
Tks Jon
Thanks Jon for the definitive update on rappel. Ab. |
| 1/29 |
Weighing in on HR 4488 A thought and a few questions:
First: I thoroughly respect the work that Casey has done on this so take this
comment with that in mind.
I am not convinced that leveling the playing field in regard to liability issues
by including DOI agencies is a good idea. The logic follows,"Its not fair to
forest service employees that they are subject to some poorly considered policy
so let's bring in the DOI employees, too!" The better solution would be to not
subject any firefighter to the policy at all. I know that making PL 107-203 go
away is hard, but lets not give it more leverage and subject more firefighters
to it.
Two questions:
Will portal-to-portal rules apply to only those in the new firefighter series or
anyone who responds to a qualified incident?
Will portal-to-portal rules apply to only fire incidents or for all-hazard
incidents as well?
Thanks.
Signed,
Just Curious |
| 1/28 |
No name and Ab thanks, I lost my retention bonus when I took a perm promotion to the GS-08 level, but
according to that document I
am supposed to have maintained it. So I have some
retention back pay coming.
Q3. If I receive a promotion to a GS-08 firefighter retirement covered position
will my retention allowance
continue? What if it’s a promotion to a GS-09?
A3. Yes, the retention allowance would continue and the 10% would be based on
the GS-08 rate of basic
pay. If you’re promoted to a GS-09, your retention
incentive would end.
Sincerely,
Northnight |
| 1/27 |
Federal Spending Freeze-
Pres. Obama is supposed to announce tonight in his speech a 3 year federal
Spending freeze. This will affect
the Dept. of Interior as well as Agriculture.Little is known yet other than
that. A few early articles are out on the net about it. I wonder what will get
frozen?
Remember last year's "Travel Ceiling"?....We'll see.....
-MJ |
| 1/27 |
re rappel standardization: Ab,
Having been in the Rappel program from 1987-2001, and having been a part of
the renewal of this program, I was involved in
attempting standardization within the region where I was employed as well as
nationally. The process of Rappelling itself is fairly
standard, the over skid exit and between the skid and belly of the aircraft. The
issues seem to be with the configuration of the
contracted aircraft as well as the local needs......
The mindset of launching every time configured to Rappel on every call vs
arriving on scene and making decisions based on
location, behavior and responding resources as well as the land designation ( ie
wilderness vs general forest.) seemed to be a
major hurdle.
One of the tools I developed to assist with our decision to staff these fires
was this: I did a 10 yr. fire history overlay with the
roads in the layer. Then depending on the percentage of the slope, we added 1/4
to 1/2 mile on either side of the road. The fires
that fell within these parameters we called Ground response. And all else we
called this Aerial delivered fires. The facts showed
that approx. 65% of the fires on our unit fell within the grounds that were
Aerial delivery. So when we got a location of the new
start, we had a fairly good idea if this was going to require delivering FFtrs.
via Rappel. I am not saying that this is the answer to
the question of standardization but could be considered when working on this
process.
Complete standardization will be difficult with the way that the agency
procures aircraft for this mission. All helicopters are not
equal, as well as all Spotters are not created equal as well as all Rappellers
are not created equal etc. etc. Standardization will
assist the human part of the equation but the procurement process will need to
be standardized also. The program itself has been
proven viable and needs to continue into the future. Perhaps the agency needs to
look at the # of programs and analyze whether
or not there truly is a need on that unit or within that region. Limits need to
be identified on the # of Programs that utilize this
system and these limits need to be fair and equitable to all.
I say to all the folks involved in this program, You need to become part of the
solution and sometimes the hard decisions are
not being analyzed. Not sure if all will agree with everything I say here but
the only way standardization will be achieved is if all
the players realize that they have an opportunity to enhance the program by
becoming involved and perhaps we will see this
program well into the future! IMHO!
Bob |
| 1/27 |
More on HR 4488
Hi to all:
Since the introduction of HR 4488, some questions and concerns have been raised
about Section 8-FireFighter Liability. I can assure the federal wildland
firefighting community that no one is more interested in getting rid of the
potential liability issue in its totality than we here at the FWFSA.
The language included in this bill with respect to liability was based upon the
fact that despite the issue of firefighter liability having risen to the level
of Congressional hearings; the level of the Forest Service acknowledging the
"unintended consequences" of PL 107-203, no one in Congress or the Agency as a
whole has offered any legislative or administrative remedy to the issue.
Rather than allow the uncertainty and ambiguity of PL 107-203 to languish &
fester without challenge, we sought to at the very least mandate requirements
for the publication of procedures and protocols for training OIG fire fatality
investigators; reemphasize the requirement that the OIG investigation be
independent; require a specific timeline for submission of the OIG report;
ensure that those assigned to conduct such investigations have the necessary
training, skills, experience & expertise to competently perform the
investigations; and to emphasize the intent of Congress that such investigations
be a tool for building upon the concept of "lessons learned" and not to be used
to find fault or place blame.
Further, some have inferred that including DOI agencies in the investigatory
process is expanding an already bad plan. The idea first & foremost was to
create a fair playing field... The Forest Service fire program should not be the
only land management agency program selected for such independent
investigations. In fact, if PL 107-203 wasn't so ambiguous and open to such wide
interpretation, the idea might be palatable.
Some have suggested that since multiple agencies often participate in such
incidents in which fatalities occur, perhaps the investigation process should
include state, private and local government fire entities.
The bottom line is that if such investigations should be required by Congress,
they should promote such authoritative language, either legislatively or
administratively to ensure the OIG investigations do not inherently start out
criminal in nature; include totally qualified, full time, independent
investigators with subject matter expertise and provide a level of confidence
among firefighters that they can make complex decisions under dangerous,
ever-changing environments without fear of prosecution.
If the existing language does not meet those needs, then there is ample time for
redress. The introduction of legislation is simply a starting point for
dialogue. It brings the issues facing federal wildland firefighters to the
forefront of those in Congress and the Administration that heretofore may not
have had any idea of the impact the issues are having on firefighters and the
taxpayers.
Our members are always welcome to offer ideas and concepts on legislative
initiatives. I have spoken with several folks over the last few days about these
concerns and will continue to work with them and others with the legal expertise
to put together the best legislative language possible.
Respectfully,
Casey Judd
Business Manager
FWFSA |
| 1/27 |
retention bonus rules: I have read a few post where people say they will
lose the retention in a detail. That is NOT the case. If you are in
a detail, your official position remains the same, and you continue receiving
the bonus. However, if you take a
temporary promotion, you DO lose the bonus because you are not in your official
position.
Here are the 'rules' (from your site) with all the questions and answers:
www.wildlandfire.com/docs/2009/retention/more-retention.htm.
I have been both in a temporary promotion and a detail since I began receiving
my retention, and everything on that
sheet was true. I lost my retention during my temporary promotion, and continued
to receive it while in my detail.
Hope the info. helps-
No Name
Thanks for that No Name. I had forgotten we had it. Perhaps several
detailers reading here will further clarify their own situations in light of
those rules. Ab. |
| 1/26 |
re rappel standardization: Sign me skeptical....
The rappel standardization has nothing to do with the rappellers vs helitack.
It has been a process that has been in the
works for years, unfortunately it's a catalyst from this year's accident that is
forging the current discussion. Rappel has
its application in many different arenas, and as such, it is felt that the
procedures from every base need to be crisp and
coherent... and yes, standardized. It is a long process for those who are
engaged, check spotters and many others.
Nationwide there is a push for standardization in aviation, and to some
degree what we do with our rotor assets.... and
how we deliver our personnel. It simply has nothing to do with how you get
there, and the group as a whole needs to
realize that.
SC |
| 1/26 |
Ab,
Do the Abs or anyone else know the rules for receiving the retention bonus? Some
folks that were promoted
are receiving it and others are not. I am trying to figure out if I should or
should not be receiving it?
Sincerely,
NorthNightIt would be good to know exactly what the rules are. Ab. |
| 1/26 |
Fireline Mapping with the Adapx pen I was just made aware that the
November issue of FireRescue Magazine has a pretty good feature article how
Adapx pen
technology is beginning to make its appearance on the fireline. See attached.
This would be extremely useful for damage
assessment or making annotations to the IAP map by non-GIS trained personnel.
Fire Geek
Nov09_ThePenAndThePaper.pdf (229 K pdf file, shared with permission from
the author and the Fire & Rescue Magazine) |
| 1/26 |
Re: National Rappel Program I encourage those involved with this process
to ask what "Program" means. Do we have a longline program?
A fixed tank program? Bambi Bucket program? Rappelling is a tool within the
helitack program. We use it for
getting to fires that we can't land at and more often as a recruiting tool to
attract applicants.
I sincerely hope that there isn't someone at a high level in the organization
driving a personal agenda to get back
to the old days of Rappellers vs. Helitack. There is a distinct possibility of
specializing ourselves into inefficiency.
Sign me Skeptical.......... |
| 1/26 |
Rattlesnake staff ride invitation announcement The Wildland Firefighter
Apprenticeship Program is putting on leadership development training exercise;
Rattlesnake Fire Staff Ride. Anyone interested is encouraged to fallow the
instructions in this announcement.
RAGZ....
Text below. Ab
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wildland Firefighter Apprenticeship Program
Rattlesnake Staff Ride Announcement 2010
The Wildland Firefighter Apprentice Program working in partnership with the
Mendocino Interagency Hotshot Crew and the Mendocino National Forest is putting
on two staff rides for the Rattlesnake fire. First session will be conducted on
January 29th and 30th. Second session will be conducted on March 5th and 6th.
The hands on learning experience that is provided during these staff rides is
invaluable. Currently we are looking to diversify our attendee base to include
different units/ agencies with different backgrounds.
The material will be presented over the course of two days; the first part being
presented in the classroom Friday night here at the Wildland Fire Training
Center in McClellan CA, and the second part being presented at the site of the
Rattlesnake Fire on the Mendocino National Forest.
We would like to take this opportunity to extend an invitation to you and your
employees to participate in this staff ride. There is no cost for these staff
ride sessions and attendees are expected to provide for their own
transportation, food and lodging. If you have any individuals on your units/
departments that would like to attend the staff ride please feel free to contact
us. This would be a great experience to expose your employees to an important
fire and leadership training exercise. Please respond by Wednesday January 27,
2010 for the first session and February 18th for the second session.
For more information and to sign up for this event, interested parties are
encouraged to contact:
Ramon Gomez
Assistant Apprentice Coordinator for January 30th staff ride
(916) 640-1102
Aaron Grove
(916) 640-1061
Apprentice Coordinator for March 6th staff ride or
Nate Gogna
Wildland Firefighter Apprentice Program Manager - BLM
McClellan AFB
3237 Peacekeeper Way, Bldg. 200
McClellan, CA 95652
ngogna@ nospam ca.blm.gov |
| 1/26 |
Greetings abercrombie,
I'm writing to let you know the poll to vote for the 2009 best Hotlist IA
posters is now open. Please take a few minutes to visit the
Hotlist Forums and vote on who you think did the best job of posting the new
fires. This is your chance to recognize and reward
those fine folks who spend so much of their time keeping the rest of us up to
date.
Here's the link to the Announcement:
www.wildlandfire.com/hotlist/announcement.php?f=3
Thanks for your time.
Sincerely, OAHaw Haw. Fun. Ab. |
| 1/26 |
Re Fire videos for training: I just took a look at those suggestions and
they are exactly the info I was looking for.
Thanks a million for the help.
Stay Safe.
Drew |
| 1/26 |
"So there are three ways in which a civil leadership causes the military
(USFS) trouble.
- When a civil leadership unaware of the facts tells its armies (wildland
fire managers) to advance when it should not, or tells its armies to retreat
when it should not, this is called tying up the armies.
- When the civil leadership is ignorant of military affairs but shares
equally in the government of the armies, the soldiers (firefighters) get
confused.
- When the civil leadership is ignorant of military maneuvers but shares
equally in the command of the armies, the soldiers hesitate.
Once the armies are confused and hesitant, trouble comes from competitors
(fires). This is called taking away victory by deranging the military."
The Art of War, Sun Tzu |
| 1/26 |
Mr abercrombie,
Again I would like to make a case for the centralized fire organization! We
simply cannot continuing allowing the state and local agencies to receive all
the positive press in managing complex campaign incidents, including non fire
incidents! It isn't fair and never has been "we all know that"! Simply put these
agencies have lesson learned on how to manage and mitigate their decisions on
these extremely complex situations! They have learned well from us and in many
circumstances have mastered well how to take advantage and educate extremely
well why they provide a positive service to whom they protect and serve.
The one thing we need to communicate more effectively to the press and the
alternate agencies over and over again, is that we have the qualified leaders
experienced enough with the resources aligned behind us to step up and intercede
on their behalfs. So they don't have to take the political heat, and risk their
political futures and their funding within their representative fire protection
districts! It is finally time for those that cooperate with us, and look to us
for professional advice in these adverse situations too band together with their
full support as firefighters and respect and support our only request! Its
simple it's really not a competition: they have their role and we know ours! Who
really makes decisions after all! We all do collectively. We just have different
priorities!!!
Jeffsz00tv |
| 1/25 |
I don't know of any other websites that have good collections of fire
videos, but I do know that you can save YouTube videos. It's
actually pretty easy to do. I use Firefox so the program I'm using for this is
designed for Firefox, but if you're using Internet
Explorer there's other programs you can use, like
this one or
this one. Either way, here's how it works. I downloaded
this add-on
which is called "1-Click YouTube Video Download" and installed it onto my
Firefox. Quick and easy, and the file is small.
When I look at a YouTube video, this is what my page looks like now.
http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz300/SavingHawaii/YouTubeDownload.jpg?t=1264485208
See that part I circled in red? Those are download links. I can download it in
FLV, MP4, and 3GP (whatever that last one is).
I just click on the link and it downloads the video. Pretty handy. Hopefully
that works for you. If you can't get it to work, feel
free to send a message back and I'll see what I can do.
Saving Hawaii |
| 1/25 |
Training videos: Drew,
You can download and save youtube videos completely legally by downloading
"free flv converter". Google flv converter
and there are results galore to download and convert youtube, metacafe, and
almost any other type of embedded videos.
Once downloaded the same software will allow you to convert the videos to wmv
and embed in powerpoint. Not sure if
that's what you were asking but... Hope it helps.
DS
Sent from my iPhone |
| 1/25 |
Hey Ab,
Sorry to bother you with a relatively small issue, but Im kinda lost. My
department is a small town combo department
that is trying to get with the times of the Redcard system. My problem lies in
the fact that I have a very small library
of videos to pull from to develop a good engaging power point. If you know of
any websites that are unlike youtube
in the fact that you cant save the videos, I would greatly appreciate it.
Thanks,
Drew
Drew, I don't know, but perhaps someone here will. Ab. |
| 1/25 |
Found this link on the Lessons Learned Website
www.myfirevideos.net/
Lots of good videos.Reel to reel |
| 1/25 |
Hi to all:
Attached is the Dear Colleague letter sent out to Congressional offices by
Congressman Filner. Yes, the typos
we alerted staff and the legislative counsel to several months ago appear to
have made their way into the
introduced version however according to the staff and Leg. Counsel they will not
disrupt the movement or
consideration of the bill.
I am still working on congressional contact info as well as a fact sheet. A wee
bit under the weather the last few
days but I'm working on it.
Casey Judd
Business Manager
H.R.4488DearColleague.pdf (46 K pdf file)
I hope you feel better soon Casey. Ab. |
| 1/25 |
Abs -
Among the many folks helping our brothers and sisters in Haiti in many ways is a
member of the Southern Area
Incident Management Teams. Peter Dybing, SPUL of the Southern Area Type 2 Team,
is a resident of the Virgin
Islands, and an EMT with St. Croix Rescue, which has a group of medical
volunteers helping injured Haitians.
They could use our support. More info is on the
Hotlist.
Thanks ...... STUMPIE |
| 1/24 |
RE: rappel standardization
NZ Supe (ret),
Up to now there is no National Rappel Program. There are a gathering of
Regional and Forest programs. As you well know we have task groups assigned to
sift through the constant changes in equipment (QC), procedures, and governing
standards (NFPA). These groups give their time freely to try to keep the program
afloat. But they cannot truly succeed until we make the commitment to pare down
from the multitude of platforms, correct variations in procedures for cargo
delivery, and decide with one voice what the primary mission for the program is.
The end state of a national program cannot succeed until these processes are
complete. I don’t know if you’re clairvoyant, in the know, or just stirring the
@#$% but I sit here in my motel room tonight getting ready for another (the
fourth) week of the continuing process. You felt you couldn't make a difference.
That is unfortunate. However, the time has come, the motivation and the support
are in place and the program will be better for it. It won’t happen overnight.
It may not happen in 2010. Change is never easy but it will come. Keep the
faith.
sign me, working toward the change
Thanks for your contribution. Ab. |
| 1/24 |
ms, I don't know for sure what the status of "the guy" is. I'll try to find
out. I simply wonder why
when the R5 "Chief" is gone the Deputy Chief does not fill in. Edward as you
call him is back
now so maybe it is not important.
Boyz and Girlz in the Woods |
| 1/23 |
Soon to be Flamed,
Good information and insight. You won't get any flaming from me!
We don't get massive amounts of snow and for the most part my forest is workable
365 days a year, so its good to understand your dilemma. As far as the commute
goes, I know myself and many others have driving times close to an hour or more
each way and can be very costly. Here on the Angeles N.F. fire staff implemented
a 4-10's working schedule during the 2008 fire season that was very effective as
far as reducing fuel costs to the individual (among other things!). I would
estimate it saved me personally almost $75 - $100 a month, especially since gas
was near or above $4.00 per gallon at the time. I know many other forests have
been interested in similar types of pilot programs. Hopefully your forest will
soon look into or implement alternative working schedules based on the success
of the program on other forests.
In regards to the costs for a GS-5 and GS-6 salary that the region posted on
that letter, I looked up the 2010 OPM salary tables to compare the numbers. Here
is the link for anyone who is interested to see what the new pay scales are for
their respective localities.
http://www.opm.gov/oca/10tables/indexGS.asp
I used my area, Los Angeles County, to compare. The region letter stated that a
GS-6 full-time employee costs $46,885 per year. I'm assuming that's an average
of GS-6's throughout the region? Per the 2010 OPM salary table (again, Los
Angeles County area), a GS-6 / step 1 makes $38,882 per year. Los Angeles even
has a high locality pay too (an extra 27% increase in pay over the standard
GS-6) and its not very close to that number the region provided. But again,
depending on your step level and other factors, everybody's pay is slightly
different. I'm just wondering if those numbers the region provided represent a
total cost to the agency of that employee (i.e. TSP matching, retirement, health
benefits, etc.) If that's the case, then the $46,885 sounds more reasonable in
my opinion. But the region of course did not really clarify how they came up
with those numbers. Maybe someone has some insight and can share?
I hope the PFT conversion process somehow works out for you. I understand the
complexities that yourself and most likely many others must have, but I
personally believe that the PFT conversion move is a big step forward. All
permanent employees, including non-converted apprentices, should be guaranteed
year round work. Those that have families, bills, and mortgages to pay
appreciate the security of year round paychecks. The region should develop
schedules or work assignments that can be flexible for personnel working out of
forests subject to weather conditions. But your story is a good reminder that
there is no "one size fits all" solution to our retention and pay issues.
Oh and one last thing... Thanks again to Casey and everyone else behind the
scenes with the FWFSA for all their hard-work. Our time to get what we
deserve is near!
- Centrifugal Pump |
| 1/23 |
Boyz and Girlz in the Woods,
Thanks for the post/agenda. Curious what is the name of "the guy" you reference
in your post that is acting for Edward?
I knew Edward was retiring, I didn't know he had an acting in place, or maybe I
misunderstood your post.
ms |
| 1/23 |
R5 Partnership Council Agenda and out-of-region acting chief... Some
interesting topics being covered in this labor relations meeting
Region 5 Partnership Council Agenda, January 27th meeting
Many relate to fire and to morale.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On another topic. Does anyone know if the guy who is "acting" for Ed Hollenshead is being groomed for R5 Chief position when
he retires? Interesting how whenever a very well qualified woman gets close to
and applies for the R5 Chief position they bring in a
man from somewhere else. Why doesn't it feel like the best man or woman will be
hired? No doubt they'll choose someone from
R8 so R5 can continue to be whipped into line.
Boyz and Girlz in the Woods |
| 1/23 |
Dear Concerned for Morale and for Safety: What is your idea of a functional
movement process? Is this like PT time being supported?
Is it a program that's different from what we have?
roadrunner
PS. Nice job Casey and FWFSA and supportive letter writers! |
| 1/23 |
Congratulations to Casey for getting HR 4488 introduced! It is doubtful that
we'll see it passed right away, but the
mere fact that the firefighters have the
clout to have a bill introduced into congress means a new way of doing business
has arrived. I am impressed and hopeful that things might change before I
retire. Good job Casey and to all the folks
who have written their
representatives.
Just An Old Chief |
| 1/23 |
HR 4488 is introduced!
H.R. 4488 To implement updated pay and personnel policies in order...
A bill in the US Congress:
To implement updated pay and
personnel policies in order to improve the recruitment and retention of
qualified Federal wildland firefighters... |
| 1/23 |
I am usually content to browse
They Said. However, so much of the following information is misleading, I had to
say something.
For the record I feel bad
“bitching and whining” when people are out there fighting and dying, and
terrible things are going on in the world, but we must all continue on.
Description:
The firefighter retention plan was implemented in FY 2009 and has resulted in a
decrease in R5 vacancies from 363 vacancies in June 2008 to 181 vacancies in
December 2009.
(Of the people I know who were
hired into permanent positions or changed positions since the retention
incentive started, none of them were hired strictly because of this incentive.
None of them applied for their current job because of this incentive. They WERE
hired because of a more aggressive hiring policy, and often lower standards in
the hiring process. Remember the June-July 2008 hiring joke? Job references were
not even checked!!)
Key Points:
The plan includes 4 actions being taken by the Forest Service:
- All (permanent) seasonal firefighters were offered the
option to convert to full-time firefighter positions; approximately 502
positions have been converted to full time; the estimated cost of this
action is $21 million; employees that opted to convert received an increase
in their compensation and benefit package; (I was
not "offered" PFT, I was coerced. In fact I am still being coerced, and I am
now being threatened. I have been told that if I do not accept PFT soon I
may not have a job anymore.)
- GS - 5 - Seasonal $31, 422; Full-time $35,029
- GS - 6 - Seasonal $35,029; Full-time $46,885 (these
pay increases are because of A: our regular yearly increase which is
still far below the rate of inflation; and B: the 10% increase that is
conditional, and may be terminated at any time.)
- Full-time firefighters also accumulate retirement
and leave benefits year round vs. on a seasonal basis.
- The option of conversion will continue to be
offered on an annual basis, and all eligible seasonal positions that are
vacated will be converted to full time positions when filled until all
seasonal positions have been converted. (Annually?
I have been "offered" 4 times already. Again, I am being told that I
may not have a job much longer if I continue to refuse.)
- Effective March 1, a one year 10% Retention allowance
for firefighters in grades GS-05 through GS-08 was implemented.
Approximately 1,675 employees received the allowance. The one-year cost is
approximately $7 million.
- The allowance will be reviewed prior to the
expiration date to determine if it continues to meet justification
standards for renewal in March 2010. A decision will be made by January
31, 2010. (remind me why this is not
applicable to details? Where is the
“incentive” to step up when you lose money?)
- Assessment and evaluation of a separate firefighter
series is ongoing. Regional staff work has been completed and provided to
the WO Classification Branch. In order for OPM to consider the development
of the firefighter series a proposal must be forwarded to OPM from USDA. OPM
does not have a standard timeline for response. (I
think we all know how long it takes OPM to change something.15+ years?)
- Evaluation of the current Special Salary Rate for
firefighters in Southern California area is ongoing. Regional specialists
are working in conjunction with the WO to determine if additional changes
are required to the current Special Salary Rate. (Southern
CA is not the only part of the U.S. that is expensive to live in.)
"The Forest Service currently plans to employ 4,432 firefighters in
California. There are 181 vacancies.”
The level of disrespect in my workplace has increased as a result of turning
down PFT status. My quality of work remains at or above the expectations of my
supervisors, and my references and performance appraisals reflect this. I
consistently take on duties far above my pay grade, and I have always taken on a
variety of collateral duties...whether on my module or my district. I like to
think that even through the coercion and harassment I have remained a loyal and
motivated employee. I believe in sticking around to make this a better place to
work. I am a paying member of the F.W.F.S.A., and I actively try to recruit new
members. Meanwhile many past colleagues have bailed to chase a better paycheck
and retirement. However, my patience is wearing thin.
The best part is that there is NO work for several months a year at my station
as it is snowed in. Even getting to work is a chore, and can be extremely
dangerous during the winter months. There is no housing available on the F.S.
grounds, there is little available locally with none that is affordable at my
grade, and I have been told that permanent employees about GS-5 cannot stay in
the barracks. This leaves no option other than making a 1 hour to 1.5 hour drive
each way into the mountains. This not only costs $320-$400 a month, but it is
dangerous on our narrow mountain roads...roads that are questionable during the
summer months!! I think we all know the statistics on traffic related injuries
and fatalities.
The reality is PFT is not a perfect solution for those of us in lower pay
grades, or those of us at out stations. Additionally, some of us retain the “old
school” belief that experience is of value before climbing the ladder into a
leadership or supervisory position. This is not a pay game like in the business
world; we are directly responsible for peoples lives.
I am sure many will think of me as a whiner who does not know how good he has
things in a poor economy. Fair enough. I have never asked for PFT or an increase
in pay, or a cash award for the additional duties I take on. I was content to do
my job and move up when I felt I was ready, or when I needed a bigger check.
The following is a list of things that I think the R.O. SHOULD spend their
time and money on, many of which have already been proposed by the F.W.F.S.A.
and ignored:
- A: Benefits and retirement for our temps, the backbone of our workforce;
- B: A flat 20%-25% pay increase across the board for all fire personnel;
- C: Updated the pay scale to account for the actual rate of inflation;
- D: PFT for those that WANT it, or those who work in places with longer fire
seasons;
- E: 4 day work weeks, or guaranteed overtime similar to Cal Fire. This could
address B if played right.
- F: Portal to Portal.
Maybe my experiences are unique, I am a whiney little wuss, and my ideas are
crazy. I believe it is a case of terrible leadership, and years of accepting
exploitation. I endeavor to be a better leader to those that work for me. But
right now I want this propaganda exposed for what it is: a LIE.
Signed,
Soon to be Flamed (no pun intended)
Thanks for the perspective and suggestions. Ab. |
| 1/23 |
rappel standardization I have listened and shook my head for the last sixteen
years about standardizing the rappel program.
I have attended Regional Spotter Workshops and come to consensus on procedures
for make and
model and after everyone went home, we were right back to "business as usual".
We have a guide
outlining procedures for make and model and I still find no matter where you go
Region to Region
there are "geographical differences" to those standards. The rappel bases within
the FS, BLM and
NPS need to ADHERE to those standards as written and not "roll your own". I hope
one day someone
can show me that we truly have standardized procedures within the National
Rappel Program.....
NZ Supe (ret) |
| 1/23 |
CO-RTF-Freeman Reservoir Felling Fatality Report is out. Fallers, a "must
read". Lots of lessons learned reports have been posted on the
Hotlist in the last 2 days. Ab. |
| 1/22 |
Legislative Update:
I am proud and honored to announce the introduction of HR 4488, the National
Wildfire Infrastructure
Improvement and Cost Containment Act in the US House of
Representatives yesterday.
The Dear Colleague Letter as well as the Congressman's press release will be
provided shortly.
DEFINITELY MORE TO FOLLOW.
Casey Judd
Business Manager
FWFSA
Excellent! Ab. |
| 1/22 |
Death sought for Rickie Lee Fowler 10:58 PM PST on Thursday, January 21,
2010
By PAUL LAROCCO
The Press-Enterprise
Special Section: Inland Wildfires
Prosecutors announced Thursday that they will seek death for the man charged
with setting 2003's Old Fire in San Bernardino County, drawing an emotional
response from his attorney.
Rickie Lee Fowler, 28, was indicted last October on five counts of murder and
one count each of arson of an inhabited structure and aggravated arson.
"I'm so shocked and dismayed," said his attorney, Don Jordan. "The five people
this man is accused of killing died of natural, medical causes, not from smoke
or fleeing the fire."
The Old Fire destroyed 1,003 San Bernardino County homes over nine days
beginning Oct. 25, 2003. It burned 91,281 acres, wiping out entire neighborhoods
in San Bernardino and surrounding mountain communities.
Ultimately, prosecutors linked the blaze to five residents who suffered fatal
heart attacks while fleeing. (more at the link) |
| 1/21 |
Big Hill Helitack is approaching 50 years of service on the Eldorado National
Forest.
The crew is compiling information to preserve the origins that have formed
the foundations for an extensive tradition of hard work and solid wildlandfire
firefighting. These traditions were built on the shoulders of many individuals
who proudly served on Big Hill Helitack over the years. The helitack crew is
seeking assistance from former crewmembers, pilots, and contractors to gather
historical information pictures, memories, and accomplishments of our crew. Any
documents, photos, stories, or experiences can be forwarded to bigallan516@
nospam aol.com or contact us at (530) 647-5413.
Thanks in Advance,
Big Hill Heitack |
| 1/21 |
Southern California Association of Foresters and Fire Wardens Training and
Safety Conference It is with great pleasure that we announce the dates of our
upcoming 80th annual Training and Safety Conference in the lovely hilltop
community of Oak Glen, California. This years conference dates are May 6th and
7th, 2010.
Today, the Southern California Association of Foresters and Fire Wardens carries
on the work started 80 years ago, that of providing training and safety programs
for the men and women involved in wildland fire control throughout Southern
California. This is accomplished through an annual conference held on the first
Thursday and Friday of May. At the Annual Conference, programs selected by the
Board of Directors are presented by experts in the field of fire control,
vegetation management, fuels, weather, and a host of other subjects that are
pertinent in today's wildland work environment.
Our web site is a great place to find the latest details on the Association and
our upcoming conference.
We encourage you to preregister. Contact us at
www.SCAFFW.org
JN
Nice, J. OA added the conference to the Hotlist Calendar. Ab. |
| 1/21 |
Ab, please post. Thanks. noname fire IFPM / FS-FPM Conference Call
January 20, 2010
www.wildlandfire.com/docs/2010/fed/ifpm-fs-fpm-conference-call012010.doc
Agenda Items:
C-305 IQCS 1/10 Data: In the last few months, IQCS shows we have gone from 280
unqualified employees to 297 unqualified. The increase is most likely due to
more employees being entered in IQCS. The total IFPM respondents in IQCS is
2,770 as of Jan 2010. 297 unqualified = 10.7% This is on par with the DOI
bureaus.
In the last few months, we have reduced the number of employees who were
incorrectly entered in IQCS from 36 to 8. Thanks to all the Regional Reps who
have been trying to get the data cleaned up.
- We’re estimating that there are 124 IFPM employees who will not meet
their IFPM Standard on Oct 1, 2010. This estimation is based on lack of any
supporting documentation in IQCS that shows they have a PTB for 1 or more
qualifications that they are lacking for their IFPM position. These
employees are of high concern.
- We’re assuming that those employees who only lack an NWCG class, or have
an initiated PTB with recent experience in that position will have a very
good chance of completing their IFPM requirements before the implementation
deadline.
- Please see the C-305 spreadsheet that Evans sent out listing employees
who lack required elements and pass on to units to address deficiencies.
- We’re asking the Regional Leads to start making inquiries on the
identified unqualified employees on the C-305 report that do not have a PTB
initiated for the NWCG qualification(s) they are lacking. “Do they know they
are lacking a qualification (or two) and do they have a plan to be qualified
by Oct 1, 2010?”
- Evans will pull the next C-305 report in March, then early summer, and
again prior to the implementation deadline. If anyone needs further
information, let him know.
- If a person has an incorrect Job Task (Technical, Professional) the
information in the C-305 report may not show the correct data (Tenna). This
came about when some of the Job Tasks were revised in IQCS, and if the
person was entered into one of the Job Tasks that was removed, then their
competency status may be in error. This can only be accomplished manually by
the IQCS account manager, and is not something that can be fixed by the IQCS
program.
- This is a reason why we’re asking everyone to double check that the
information entered into IQCS is correct for each IFPM employee.
- R4 requested a data call from all their Forests, asking that each Forest
submit an organization chart and IFPM position identification worksheet. So
far, this information has been very helpful, and can be used for other
purposes. See Tenna Biggs (R4) if interested in more information.
Seasonal SFFs: Technically speaking, the SFF category also applies to
1039 Temp-seasonals at the GS-5 and GS-6 level as it does those on a PSE
appointment. However, due to the transient nature of 1039 temp-seasonals, it
puts a big burden on the unit’s IQCS Account Manager to enter them into IQCS
when they may not be returning the following season, or if they get a permanent
position.
Prior to the implementation deadline, a 1039 temp-seasonal may be hired into a
SFF position, but must be qualified on Oct 1, 2010. If the employee’s season of
employment will transcend the Oct 1, 2010 deadline, they must be informed upon
time of hire that they must meet their IFPM Standard on Oct 1, 2010, or be
subject to the additional requirements for unqualified employees (which may
entail removal from their position) if they fail to meet IFPM Standard on the
deadline date.
For 1039 employee’s with rehire status, the local unit will have to be cognizant
of the implementation deadline, and work to ensure the employee will be
qualified on Oct 1,2010. Evans will bring this issue up at ASC in February.
T1 Helicopter Managers: Managers of T1 helicopters on exclusive-use
contracts are <etc at the link> |
| 1/20 |
RE hiring a non citizen: We hired two over the last 3 seasons on the Hotshot
crew. We had to use the student hire STEP program,
they both worked out really well. One of them became a citizen last year. Great
time!
RC |
| 1/20 |
Re hiring a non-citizen: A couple of years ago my (R5) forest hired a green
card as a temp through the Central California Consortium.
Not sure if it was "legal" or otherwise, or if the same's true today.
Good Luck!
No name please |
| 1/20 |
Legislative Update
After unsuccessful attempts last week to ascertain the reason for the delay in
getting our wildland firefighter legislation introduced, I was humbled to
receive a call on my cell phone just a short while ago from the Lead Congressman
himself who apologized profusely for the delay and some miscommunication between
himself and his staff. He indicated he would be introducing the bill, The
National Wildfire Infrastructure Improvement & Cost Containment Act, tomorrow.
Once a number is assigned to the bill, we will provide that information and
start putting contact information on the FWFSA web site for those interested in
contacting their representatives for support. We are also crafting a information
"cheat sheet" so those of you who support the bill can all be singing off the
same page.
The introduction of this comprehensive piece of legislation, while
precedent-setting and a milestone of an accomplishment for a modest-size
organization pales in comparison to the effort we must make to get it passed.
While we will take advantage of our contacts in the media, the voices of those
who will benefit from this bill, whether you are an FWFSA member or not, whether
you are a firefighter or member of the militia or a family member of any of the
above must be proactive in the coming months.
I truly hope those of you in the federal wildland firefighting community will
embrace the opportunity to be a part of this historic effort. Oh yea, and
joining the FWFSA certainly wouldn't hurt either.
More to follow.
Casey Judd
Business Manager
FWFSAGreat job, Casey! Ab. |
| 1/20 |
Ed Hollenshead R5 director of fire is retiring Director, Fire and Aviation
Management, GS-0401-15, Pacific Southwest Region, Region 5; Vacancy Announcement
opened Jan 19 - closes Feb 19
The vacancy announcements for the position of Director, Fire and Aviation
Management, GS-0401-15, Regional Office, Pacific Southwest Region, Region 5,
with duty location in Vallejo, CA, opened January 19 with a closing date of
February 19. Serves as the Director, Fire and Aviation Management, and is the
technical authority in Fire and Aviation Management with responsibilities for
providing technical advice and guidance to the administrator-in-charge of the
planning, development, and guidance of resource management programs and
providing technical guidance, program review, coordination, and leadership for
the Fire and Aviation Management programs.
The vacancy announcement #s are ADS10-R5-RO5FA-00123G (Merit Promotion -
internal open to status eligibles) and ADS10-R5-RO5FA-00123DP (Demonstration
Project - external open to US Citizens) and can be viewed on the OPM web site
"USA Jobs" listed below with instructions on how to search - or - in AVUE.
Please continue to outreach this important vacancy throughout the announcement
period.
Applicants should print/review the announcement carefully and ensure that their
application is filed on or before the closing date of February 19.
http://www.usajobs.opm.gov etc |
| 1/19 |
Ab, Who's Retiring?
It's never too late to retire.
The underlined was forwarded to myself form Miles City BLM.
Ed Mayberry officially retired as of January 1, 2010, after 46 years. He just
didn't tell us until yesterday.
Needless to say, we are collecting fire pictures to create a Memory Book for Ed.
We are looking for
pictures of people/engines/buildings/incidents from past and present years to
include, and even some rare
photos of Ed (if he stood still long enough). If you have any photos that you
would like us to include,
please send them my direction.
FYI: I had the pleasure to work with Ed for a little over 2 years at Miles City,
when I was the Station
Manager there around 1999.If any engine or fire equipment happened to break
down in BF Eastern Montana you could count on
Ed getting it moving again.
Ed retired in Logistics and managed the cache.
Ed kept current in fire quals and last took the Arduous Pack Test about 10 years
ago.
Ed, not only did fire for 46 years, he was also the College Rodeo Coach, and
Math Teacher.
This Math background gave Ed the ability to keep a very sharp pencil.
This sharp pencil was obvious over time, (Despite Our Efforts) there was little
to nothing that escaped from
Ed's fire cache without him knowing.
Years ago, Ed was also the BLM's representative to hike, and place a wreath for
the 50th anniversary of
the Mann Gulch tragedy.
Because of the limited years that I worked with Ed, I cannot begin to speak of
what he has accomplished
in his life.
But I must congratulate Ed, and wish him a happy retirement.
PS: Ed is 76 years young.
Lucky Lindy
Nice tribute. Anyone have info or photos for the Memory Book? |
| 1/19 |
ABs, thought I'd pass this along. Sad news for our USFWS brothers and sisters.
DCE Oregon:
Two found dead in crashed plane
By Bennett Hall, Gazette-Times reporter | Posted: Monday, January 18, 2010
2:00 pm
Two federal wildlife managers doing an aerial survey of migratory waterfowl
died when their small plane went down west of Philomath Sunday afternoon.
Search teams found the wreckage Monday morning. Both the pilot and a passenger
were found dead at the scene.
The pilot, Ray Bentley, 52, of Blodgett, was a longtime employee of the U.S.
Fish and Wildlife Service. His passenger, David Pitkin, 59, of Bandon, was a
former employee working as a contractor for the agency.
The two men were involved in the annual midwinter count of migratory birds,
said David Patte, a spokesman for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. They were
on their way back to Corvallis after surveying duck and goose populations in
coastal estuaries.
“You couldn’t meet two finer people,” Patte said. “They were really dedicated
to the work they did. They loved the migratory bird program.” (more at the
link)
Condolences. Ab. |
| 1/19 |
Sad News: Devin Storz, 21 yr old wildland firefighter on LPF's Mt
Pinos District, died yesterday morning when a 90' pine tree fell
on his parents' house in Pine Mountain. Winds were reported to be 80 mph.
http://mountainenterprise.com/atf.php?sid=6359¤t_edition=2010-01-15
Condolences. Ab. |
| 1/19 |
Re: R3 Sirens and Lights I am shocked that R3 has made such a drastic turn
from the Fire Organization that it was 5 years ago when I was an FS Engine Capt
there! To think that a Fire Apparatus should NOT be equipped with lights and
sirens is appalling. This after the Region took the lead, nationally, in regards
to the “Contract brand” tire issue and had Engine Modules replace tires due to
the safety concern of the lower ply tire that came standard with new engines.
Will it take a number of near misses or an actual roadside strike before you
listen to your subject matter experts again?
Look for all you “Forestry Tech” first people and the “Firefighter” first
folks…Point blank, it comes down to safety! I want my Fire personnel to be
“obnoxiously obvious” while traveling to/from and while performing their current
mission. I do not have a problem with spending $8k funds in order to provide as
much safety as I can for them. $8k is nothing to me when compared to a
firefighter! As a Management Officer I preach this daily to my personnel.
Do you have to run code 3? Not always…Will Code 2 or Code 1 work (can you use
those?).
AN ENGINE IS A TOOL and with that tool there should be safety measures
built in and with that, training. Do we give a rookie a chainsaw and say, “have
at it boy, bump up that line and cut that Pondo on top of the hill, yeah the one
caught up in all those dead ones with the roots burnt out”? I think not.
At this time R8 USFS has a “Train the Trainer” Fed EVOC course that they have
begun teaching this past year, I had the fortunate opportunity to participate in
the class while helping to instruct an Engine Academy. I learned few things to
add to by personnel bag of tricks, which I immediately brought back to my home
unit and instilled and felt that it covers many of the issues that have been
discussed on past posts.
Am I advocating mach 20 in a unit, lights ablaze with siren blaring? Heck no!
That is part of the training. However, if someone can see me or my modules
driving down the road and they recognize that, “hey something’s going on, maybe
I should pay more attention!” then I think the lights and sirens just paid for
themselves.
Red or Blue…Well all I can say it that universally RED = Fire, BLUE = Police.
But given that option of Blue or no lights…heck yeah give me some Blue ones.
Please take your GS levels off your sleeves and listen to what the folks on the
ground are saying. Keep the lights and the sirens, make a commitment to safety.
Ta’
Ab, that should do it.. Thanks for all that you do.
You're welcome. The contributors make this place what it is. Ab. |
| 1/19 |
Are there any agencies that will hire a non citizen that has the right to work
in
United States?Thank you for your time
Jose |
| 1/18 |
Ab and all,
Can anyone tell me why it is that after I got promoted I lost my retention
bonus. I did not take a detail and I did not move out of the GS scope. Now why
would I lose my retention for stepping up? Seems silly to me. Makes me wish I
had not taken the promotion. It translates into a loss of money for me. Sure you
can argue I will make more during the off-forest stints, but it is the base
checks that butter my bread during the winter and losing my retention means
losing about $200 a PP.It is not only Health and Safety, but some of the
ludicrous rules put in place that decrease morale. I am getting really tired of
working for someone that is completely disconnected from the troops. Speaking of
which. Where is Randy all the time that he can not even type his electronic
signature to his multiple letters? Why does the R.O. have a full gym? I have to
decide between a set of kettle bells or new sleeping bags, because it comes out
of my meager module funds. Instead of a mobility or exercise coach, why don't
you folks give me the budget to buy the right things to keep my people healthy.
Some folks may lack the knowledge to buy their own stuff or they have the newest
GPS and choose not to buy things to help keep people healthy. Maybe they are in
the same dilemma I am in: using module funds to buy exercise equipment and
physicals for SCBA's or buying the stuff that would make us all happier while we
are on the road. Like sleeping bags.
I'll climb off my soap box,
Northnight |
| 1/17 |
For those interested, check the Google Earth /ArcGIS map of the Haiti
destruction. Ab.
Hotlist |
| 1/17 |
Physical Fitness Functional Movement program to boost morale and safety! Ab,
The Forest Service -including our large component of firefighting employees-
is made up of a very large
percentage of people that do a very physical job. My question is: why we
do not invest in each employee's
physical fitness at every level, when that would be the most logical action?
Two issues:
- I have also heard R5 upper managers asking why do we have so many
physical injuries? Are we
shirking safety?
- Someone mentioned yet another study of morale.
One thing that would improve morale and simultaneously reduce
on-the-job injuries is to invest in each
employee's physical fitness using the functional movement process. Our FS needs
to be an interactive health
partner. When people feel good about themselves they feel better. Morale and
safety increase.
Instituting a Functional Movement program would vastly improve Forest Service
SAFETY and MORALE.
It would be a cost effective fix!
WE CAN DO THAT NOW.
sign me "concerned for Morale and for Safety!" |
| 1/16 |
The following was written or approved by Randy Moore and sent to Dianne
Feinstein in December on the progress
of our morale. "Morale Liaisons" I gotta get me one of those.
ms
Subject: Region 5 Morale Progress
Key Issue: How the Region is Addressing Agency-wide Morale Issues
Description:
Regional leadership adopted a guiding objective of ensuring a healthy workforce
and workplace for 2010. This key objective will drive overall efforts to ensure
a productive work environment. Dialogue continues at all levels in the Region to
identify and positively address issues affecting morale.
In the Regional Office, exercise equipment has been secured in response to
overwhelming interest and support by employees.
Key Points:
Good communication throughout the Region and Agency is foundational to
strengthening employee morale. The Region is currently assessing the following
specific actions to further improve communication flow and morale:
- Initiate opportunities and forums to connect the Regional Forester Team
with employees for constructive and healthy dialogue. These forums may
include the RF Team participating in regular “coffee” gatherings with
several employees who normally do not have the opportunity to interact with
the RF Team, periodically joining staff meetings, and greeting employees in
areas not typically visited.
- Identify employees who are willing to serve as “morale liaisons” to
facilitate communication and solve issues at different levels of the
organization.
- The Regional Forester will communicate to employees the steps that will
be taken to address morale in the Region, including information sharing on
the Chief’s sensing efforts. Encourage forests to adopt similar measures
that the Regional Office will be using.
- Conduct simple surveys in the Regional Office to detect and monitor
common themes pertaining to morale that may emerge that the Regional
Forester Team can proactively address.
|
| 1/16 |
Tragic passing of Dave Griggs: Dave was one of the Good Ones; he will be
missed. My heartfelt condolences to his family and friends for their tragic
loss.
>From the Jan 12, 2010 Humboldt Sun newspaper (Winnemucca, NV):
"David Buchanan Griggs, born Nov 26, 1946... passed away on Dec 25, 2009 from a
head injury due to a fall.
Born in Willimantic, Conn, David grew up in Davis, CA... (he) graduated from the
University of Montana at Missoula as the
outstanding forestry senior. During the summers of his college years he was a
smokejumper in the Pacific Northwest and
Alaska... Dave moved to Moscow, Idaho, to work on a Master's degree in Rangeland
Management. In 1976 he began his
career with the Bureau of Land Management in Shoshone, Idaho. He later became
the Area Manager for the Paradise-Denio
Area out of Winnemucca (NV). He moved to Reno in the 1980's and at the time of
his retirement from the BLM in Jan 2009
he was serving as the Natural Resource Specialist, and Safety and Occupational
Health Manager. In recent summers he used
his knowledge of firefighting as a Single Engine Airtanker Manager in Alturas,
CA.
Dave was an athlete, a conservationist, and a handyman, but he first and
foremost loved his family. He is survived by his wife
Josie, his sons William (Gil) and Eldred (Ed), and his daughter Ruth, his mother
Ruth Griggs and his sisters Holly Coles and
Paula Lenz.
A memorial service will be held at Little Flower Church, 875 Plumb Lane in Reno
on January 23 at 12 noon. There will be a
reception immediately following the service."
This was typed in from the newspaper itself by one of our mods.
Condolences. Ab. |
| 1/15 |
Dear ms:
The backbone of the FWFSA is its members who provide me with an incredible
wealth of information from the field such as that I posted on the retention
issue a few days ago.
Because our diverse membership spans the full spectrum of fire positions from
entry-level through FMO, dispatchers, prevention personnel, fuels folks, fire
ecologists, even a few contractors, a number of Cal-Fire folks and even a few in
the WO of the FS and who are in 27 states across the country, the information I
receive often exceeds the capacity of my little brain to comprehend sometimes.
Our members have really stepped up in the past couple of years in providing us
with information, I'm sure much of it the Agencies are none too thrilled I get
and often pass to Capitol Hill. That willingness to get involved and make a
difference for the federal wildland firefighting community is what maintains my
affection, admiration and respect for all of you and helps to make the frequent
banging of my head against the log walls of my home in dealing with the agencies
& Congress a little less painful.
Tomorrow I have the honor of joining our President, Secretary, Treasurer and
other members in sending off into the retirement abyss our former VP Dennis
Baldridge. Dennis was an original member dating back to 1991 and one of a few
whose tenacity and passion in Washington DC made me realize my place was with
the wildland folks and the FWFSA.
We have lost and will continue to lose a lot of wonderful, dedicated people to
retirement but I feel incredibly fortunate & blessed to have learned from them
and worked with & for them. I hope in turn, the younger folks recognize the
effort so many have made to get the FWFSA to where it is and realize their own
opportunity and potential to help mold their own futures with the FWFSA's help.
We still have a long ways to go to get all of you the pay, benefits & working
conditions you have all deserved for far too long but we are on the way and I
hope all in this community will remain cognizant of the effort so many have
made.
CaseyThanks Casey and happy retirement to Dennis. Ab. |
| 1/15 |
Update from Ed on retention.
Casey is right again! Join FWFSA!ms
Subject: Firefighter Retention Update
Key Issue: Forest Service has implemented a plan to improve firefighter
retention
Description:
The firefighter retention plan was implemented in FY 2009 and has resulted in a
decrease in R5 vacancies from 363 vacancies in June 2008 to 181 vacancies in
December 2009.
Key Points:
The plan includes 4 actions being taken by the Forest Service:
- All seasonal firefighters were offered the option to convert to
full-time firefighter positions; approximately 502 positions have been
converted to full time; the estimated cost of this action is $21 million;
employees that opted to convert received an increase in their compensation
and benefit package;
- GS - 5 - Seasonal $31, 422; Full-time $35,029
- GS - 6 - Seasonal $35,029; Full-time $46,885
- Full-time firefighters also accumulate retirement and leave benefits
year round vs. on a seasonal basis.
- The option of conversion will continue to be offered on an annual basis,
and all eligible seasonal positions that are vacated will be converted to
full time positions when filled until all seasonal positions have been
converted.
- Effective March 1, a one year 10% Retention allowance for firefighters
in grades GS-05 through GS-08 was implemented. Approximately 1,675 employees
received the allowance. The one-year cost is approximately $7 million.
- The allowance will be reviewed prior to the expiration date to determine
if it continues to meet justification standards for renewal in March 2010. A
decision will be made by January 31, 2010.
- Assessment and evaluation of a separate firefighter series is ongoing.
Regional staff work has been completed and provided to the WO Classification
Branch. In order for OPM to consider the development of the firefighter
series a proposal must be forwarded to OPM from USDA. OPM does not have a
standard timeline for response.
- Evaluation of the current Special Salary Rate for firefighters in
Southern California area is ongoing. Regional specialists are working in
conjunction with the WO to determine if additional changes are required to
the current Special Salary Rate.
The Forest Service currently plans to employ 4,432 firefighters in
California. There are 181 vacancies. |
| 1/15 |
In case you haven't already seen this, and feel it warrants posting... KSENGB
From: IAFC News
To: bluefd@flinthills.com
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 4:32 PM
Subject: Urgent USFA Date Call: French Creole/French Speaking First Responders
Urgent USFA Data Call:
French Creole/French-Speaking First Responders
Fairfax, Va., Jan. 15, 2010... The United State Fire Administration (USFA) is
gathering information on French Creole or French-
speaking firefighters, EMTs and
paramedics who may be able to assist with the Haiti earthquake response.
This is currently only a data call to prepare for possible future needs
by identifying the availability of specific skills and qualifications.
It is not
an opportunity for immediate deployment.
The USFA is gathering information from parties who meet the following
qualifications:
Operational: Firefighter, EMT or Paramedic
Language: French Creole or French
Deployment: Willing to deploy to Haiti for response efforts (time
undetermined, assume 1-3 weeks)
Those meeting these qualifications are asked to complete the
Haiti response form. The IAFC will transmit the data collected to
the USFA.
Again, this is only a data call. Those completing the form are not guaranteed to
deploy. If the national response
efforts require your assistance, you will be
contacted. |
| 1/15 |
Fire Geek has a very cool utility to share:
Before and After GIS...
Hotlist |
| 1/14 |
Ab and All,
Two things...
FEMA's NIMS ICS Forms comments are DUE tomorrow JANUARY 15 at
www.regulations.gov -
use the search words ICS Forms, open the docket folder, and submit comments
online or through one of the other means. I've heard that the staff of the NIMS
may accept comments after the 15th, but that you have to request an extension
through the NIMS email address. Hopefully you can find that on the NIMS site...
www.fema.gov/emergency/nims/
I just saw an interview on Haiti on MSNBC with US Dept. of Agriculture Secretary
Tom Vilsack. He said some great things about what USDA as a whole is doing, and
I was floored to hear him mention that the US Forest Service is helping with
incident management due to their expertise - even advising that they had 5
Forest Service staff working this issue in an operations center in Washington.
Also other mention of Forest Service and other USDA assistance, including
long-term help with actual forestry, ag and farming assistance, food support,
etc. Very nice interview overall, on both short and long-term assistance planned
and on the radar.
You all be safe and be well,
-Evolving |
| 1/14 |
Message about
Next week's weather CA-LMU
Ab. |
| 1/14 |
CA team headed to Haiti: CATF5 just got the call to fly to Miami to stage for
Haiti
NVJims |
| 1/14 |
Dept of Homeland Security Briefing: NOC Phase 2 - Concern 0075-10 Update
Report 8 - 7.0 Magnitude Earthquake Port au Prince, Haiti (1130 EST 14 Jan 10)
haiti-1noc-phase2-4jan10.ppt (407 K ppt photos) |
| 1/14 |
Ab,
Just a question about whether the Forest Service follows the NFPA 1901 standard
with red seatbelts in new fire apparatus,
so supervisors can easily check
seatbelt use by firefighters? And has Region 3 requested a waiver from the WO to
require
amber seatbelts, so firefighters are reminded that they're really
forestry technicians?
vfd cap'n |
| 1/14 |
Helicopter Training for Crewmembers or Managers, making the rounds
www.nps.gov/grca/parkmgmt/heli_program.htm
Eric C. Graff
Grand Canyon Flight Crew |
| 1/14 |
Training in Maine - Instructor needed for S-404 I am looking for a Safety
officer who would be interested in teaching the S-404. This would be located in
the warm southern
portion of Maine and it coming up very soon February 22 at 1300 through Feb 26
at 1200. Give me a call or send me a note
if you are interested...
Gerald Vickers Fire Management Specialist (WUI Assistant)
U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service Region 5 Fire Management
Email Ab for contact info. |
| 1/14 |
Book review:
The Big Burn: Teddy Roosevelt and the Fire that Saved America by Timothy
Egan
This book is another telling of the 1910 fires in Idaho and Montana. It is
different in tone and scope than Steve Pyne's "The year of the fires" which I
also enjoyed. Pyne's book is wide in scope and tells the story of many more
personalities and many other areas in the 1910 Fire Storm. The focus of "The Big
Burn" is really pretty limited to the story of Wallace, Idaho and environs and
the story of Gifford Pinchot and his relationship to Teddy Roosevelt. With those
two focus points the story is told moving back and forth from Wallace to
Washington. The politics of Conservation and the role of the President, John
Muir and Gifford Pinchot in setting the course for all the federal land
management agencies of the future is clear. The final scene of the fire run of
August 20 and 21, 1910 is almost anticlimactic because it seems the course has
been set for the fledgling Forest Service. But the aftermath focusing on the
story of Ed Pulaski and Gifford Pinchot is both tragic and revealing. As I said
I enjoyed both books but I feel as if I was in Wallace when the fire storm hit
after reading "The Big Burn". Highly recommended, 5 saws.
FC180 |
| 1/14 |
Good day,
I have been looking to get into the wildland fire fighting service and I came
across your website and thought I could chat with someone to answer some
questions I have. I am currently working as a mining engineer over in Turkey
which has been an incredible experience but I have slowly realized it is not my
true passion in life. (I have dual US/Canadian citizenship.) I have become very
interested in a wildland forest fighter career (especially after having to fight
one here in Turkey at our mine site) and I was just wondering if I could discuss
what it would take for a complete career move; certain requirements I will need
to be qualified and what/where job positions are available. Overall, my long
term goal would be to smokejump, but that is something I would reevaluate in the
future if/when I get into the line of duty. I really appreciate you taking the
time to read this as I was hoping to get some feedback before I make any serious
moves. Thank you for your service to our country and I hope it can be myself one
day, look forward to hearing from you soon.
All the best,
Erik B |
| 1/14 |
ab, has any one heard if we imts and all risk are going to hati?
tr
As of yesterday, my sources at NIFC said they had not gotten any
indication and my contact in DHS suggested not now. It was/is a "get the airport
up and running" by the military and a SAR show in the rubble. I believe the
situation is so fluid, however that the situation could change, especially over
time. My contacts at the CDC and WHO say it will be all about immunizations and
preventing disease. They're concerned about diseases from cholera and dysentery
to dengue fever to measles. If anyone hears more, please let us know. Ab. |
| 1/14 |
Seatbelts: Lets talk about micro managing. Well I know what I do for the guys
on my crew to ensure they are wearing their seatbelts.
I have done this for years and it works. First I have a lead firefighter in the
back to make sure that it is done. When he says
chalk up crew loaded we move. Second we occasionally will do break checks, at a
slow speed of course. This entails
hitting the breaks in a controlled area so we don't cause an accident. I might
catch one guy sleeping after a long shift and
send him into the seat in front of him. That works for us. We have to look over
our shoulder. The moment you don't someone
might slip.
Hotshots&Helicopters |
| 1/13 |
Seatbelts and what follows: Ab,
In response to all that have agreed or disagreed with the punishment that was
handed down, i'd like to put in my two cents.
- As a supervisor of a module you take the proper steps each year to go
over policy with your subordinates.
- You go over the standard Driving/Traveling JHA, (which covers seatbelts)
and each employee signs it.
- Like most hotshot crews you go over SOPs, which in this case covers the
mandatory use of seatbelts, not once but twice.
Each employee signs the SOPs.
- Prior to driving, the supervisor turns around and verbally tells the
employees in the back of the buggy to put their seatbelt on.
- All supervisors lead by example by wearing their seatbelt.
- An hour out of fire camp you get struck by a Semi Truck... the buggy
rolls.. people are injured..
- After a few days in the hospital the crew goes home. Some physically
injured and all emotionally scarred.
- Upon arrival to the home unit you expect an FLA or at least a debrief,
but instead your forest supervisor wants to do
an Administrative Investigation (due to internet rumor that seatbelts were
not worn).
- After all is said and done, the folks that were not wearing seatbelts
get a slap on the hand.
- The HS Supervisors on the other hand get suspended.
At what point was policy and regulation not followed..... By the hs
supervisors?... no.. By the adults in the back of the truck that
knew they were supposed to wear them?... yes...
To all you supervisors of modules...... if you don't physically put each
individual's seatbelt on for them... and then padlock it in
place so it can't be removed.... you will be held responsible... that's the
message forest management is trying to send.
Either that or it's a new forest supervisor head hunting an old hotshot supt.
And because i'm sure people will ask where i got my facts...... I was a
Klamath hotshot that day. I won't work for that forest
again.... keep on fightin brothers.. common sense will prevail some day.
Signed
Management without a fire background
JHA=Job Hazard Analysis
FLA= Facilitated Learning Analysis |
| 1/13 |
Re: Seatbelts
vfd cap'n, I agree with some points on your thoughts. As a crew or engine
leader, one is ultimately responsible for the well-being of your personnel at
all times, and to that I can understand how some fault can be placed upon crew
leadership. Managers often come under fire for the actions of their subordinates
both on and off incident.
But where's the fine line as a crew manager between ensuring standard procedures
are carried out, and being a micro-manager? Must we always look over the
shoulders of our employees to make sure things are done per agency direction? Do
I need to personally check the seatbelts of all 20 crewmembers? And at what
point do the actions of a subordinate address the ability of a leader to manage
his or her personnel? How much control do we really have over what a firefighter
in the back of a buggy does while you're not around?
And also as a quick point, does anyone have any information on the legalities of
the contract companies that use converted school buses to transport type hand
crews? Many of these do not have proper or any seatbelts in place. Is this
common practice? I encountered a crew this year whose standard practice was to
have new firefighters sit in the back of the bus on top of gear bags and coolers
while more experienced firefighters had 2 person bench seats all to themselves.
How can this be?
Back to the topic at hand. I do not know anyone involved with the incident nor
do I really know any specific details about "who did what", but i'm hopeful that
their crew leadership always lead by example and mandated the use of seatbelts.
If not, then maybe that's the greater problem. I will agree with others that
this decision sends out an incorrect example to other forests or agencies.
Individuals at fault should be most accountable and disciplinary actions should
be given accordingly. Based on the logic of this decision, the involved crew's
battalion or division chiefs should receive suspensions for not placing enough
emphasis on the proper use of seatbelts. The district ranger should be suspended
for not encouraging his fire staff to place that emphasis on their
firefighters... and so on and so on. Doesn't make much sense, but that's the
logic that appears to be implied.
I believe the powerpoint example that you linked to sums it up best. On the
final page titled Summary, the final bullet point states:
"We are each responsible for the actions we take or don't take"
Buckle up folks.
-Centrifugal Pump |
| 1/13 |
Re: seatbelts
Ab,
My personal opinion is that what amounts to about a $1,000 fine for for a GS-9
hotshot sup is not out of line for the Klamath
incident, nor are the lesser punishments for the captains and individual
firefighters unreasonable.
Here's a link to a
1.2 mb powerpoint on seatbelt use and policy from Firefighter Near Miss.
There is a
great article about seatbelts on Firehouse with West Point cadet Lewis Han
reflecting on a fire lieutenant's leadership
while he was on a fire department ride-along:
"Whether anyone thinks it is fair does not matter. The responsibility to
lead and be accountable for myself as well as the
other firefighters would have been on his shoulders. It is simply something
that comes with being in a position of leadership."
That's worth adding to the Quotes page.
vfd cap'n |
| 1/13 |
Ab,
As most here are hopefully aware, yesterday a magnitude 7.0 earthquake struck
Haiti, the poorest country in the hemisphere. I heard the New York City Police
Commissioner say on CNN tonight that he was there last week, and that they do
not really have fire departments and not much for ambulance service. I cannot
imagine. Essentially it sounds like there are no or few first responders, and
only minimal emergency medical care normally, on top of the lack of
infrastructure, poverty, and now devastation.
I am forwarding, below, information about aid organizations that are already
established in Haiti. This is from a contact in Washington, DC and is a list of
reputable, established organizations. If you plan to donate or know others who
are, please advise folks to donate to those groups already well-established as
aid agencies - such as the Red Cross, UNICEF, etc. Well-established aid agencies
will also be better prepared to handle and use a large volume of donated money
than any new start-up organizations created for this specific incident. As you
all know, experience brings efficiency and helps speed actual relief efforts.
It's worth noting that money is the best way to help with an international
disaster. Donated items create more problems than they help, as do individuals
who just decide to "go help" without being invited to do so. Individuals who
show up to "help" without an invite and without logistical support from an
associated aid organization create a need for more people to be fed and
sheltered than there were already.
Have not heard word yet about any mobilization of folks from the wildland fire
community, although any such response could well be limited to those individuals
with a passport, updated shots, etc. - especially due to the likely public
health risks.
Please consider the following reputable organizations if you are able and
interested in assisting...
** Partners in Health (Paul Farmer's organization) - Zanmi Lasante
(“Partners In Health” in Haitian Kreyol) is PIH’s flagship project – the oldest,
largest, most ambitious, and most replicated.
www.pih.org/where/Haiti/Haiti.html
**Doctors Without Borders - Doctors Without Borders/Médecins Sans
Frontières (MSF) is an international medical humanitarian organization. They in
1999, MSF received the Nobel Peace Prize.
http://doctorswithoutborders.org/
** Ox-Fam is a confederation of 14 like-minded organizations
working together and with partners and allies around the world to end poverty
and injustice, from campaigning to responding to emergencies.
www.oxfam.org/
** A.M.E. Church - Since its founding 28 years ago, AME-SADA has
demonstrated the implementation of its mission, Helping People Help Themselves,
by providing essential assistance to those in need through health, micro-credit
and education programs, as wells as emergency humanitarian aid in Africa and
Haiti. www.ame-sada.org/
Be well,
-Change Agent |
| 1/12 |
Klamath Seatbelt issue
Just need to unleash my 2 cents to this mess. It's unbelievable what is going on
with the Forest Service these days (Keep the faith
folks, it will get better - you will make it better). I think it all started
with the DG (That's Data General computer system for you
youngsters).
When you think about it, the personnel actions fall right in line with the
fall-out from the Sadler Fire. Now, why did practically a
whole platoon of team overhead lose their quals due to an independent decision
of a certain dumb-ass Crew Boss? No, I'm not
saying that Crew Bosses are dumb-asses for crying out loud! We all know Crew
Bosses are the backbone of wildland fire
suppression, give me a break. The answer is that we're in the era of
accountability, if you will. What the hell? Accountability
should only count, though, when one is truly accountable. The ultimate
accountability to keep one's seatbelt fastened lies with
oneself, I would submit. My sympathies are with the supervisors on this one.
Again, what the hell?
I just hope and pray that when fire season rolls around in 2010, this and other
issues will be old news, and the 10 & 18 (remember
the Health & Safety Code too) will be uppermost in everyone's thoughts.
old coyote |
| 1/12 |
Six Rivers NF Lessons Learned (Eureka CA Supervisor's Office) from the 6.5
earthquake, originally created by
Michelle Reugebrink, R5 Safety Officer:
www.wildlandfire.com/docs/2010/lessons-learned/SRF_Earthquake_lesson_learn.pdf
(3,900 K pdf file)
This was a huge powerpoint that I converted to pdf to reduce the size. Ab. |
| 1/12 |
me,
Here is a link to the R5 document on First Reponder requirements.
www.fs.fed.us/im/directives/field/r5/fsm/6700/6720.doc
DirtMiner |
| 1/12 |
Does anyone know where I can find the policy pertaining to medical first
responder in R5?
And what do we do if the EMS agency in our area doesn't recognize first
responder?
me |
| 1/12 |
Klamath crew accident: Just wanted to add alot of our thoughts and prayers
were with the Klamath crew after the accident. It was almost retirement time for
me when I heard how the incident was handled, Pena and Moore should have put a
stop to it, But hey Chief! This should give you a clear indication of why we are
so low in the morale department, why, even though this job should by all counts
be the best in the world, it's not. Who with any ethics or compassion would
level such an adverse action against the crew overhead of a firefighting team
and not even visit them in the hospital, does this should realistic to you?
These are. an amazing hardworking group of people who do nothing but good for
the public, people who constantly sacrifice their lives for others, they will
pull through this persecution, they are Hotshots. . Patty, I am not disgusted
with you any more. I truthfully feel sorry for you, what do you see when you
look in the mirror? What do you tell your family when you get home? My thought
is that since upper management can't do anything to serve the public anymore
because of litigation, the only meaningful part of their job is internal
affairs. Please resign, retire or change, for your own good, the workforce and
the public?
K |
| 1/12 |
Just to let folks know if you sell things on ebay you can donate a percentage of
your sale to WFF.
It is fairly easy to figure out when you set up your auction.
007 |
| 1/12 |
Casey,
I'm pretty sure that the coconut game is how most of the FS budget is handled.
Quick Connect |
| 1/11 |
Seatbelts: As usual the agency finger pointing and knee jerk reaction
continues. It seems to me that the agency has it ass backwards in regards to the
assigned punishment. Maybe the Supt. and crew need to stay home this fire season
and not allow his folks to respond in their CCV's as a safety measure. Since he
is ultimately responsible for his employees conscious thoughts and actions
whether he is present or not, this would be his only way of ensuring their
safety at ALL TIMES. We hire employees to think and when they don't, we can't
seem to hold them personally accountable, it's someone else's fault (usually
higher up). This appears more like a personal vendetta than really trying to fix
the issue. What suggestions did forest management have to ensure seatbelts will
always be worn? Shoot, the agency is always great about forking out $$money$$
(REPEATEDLY) on companies to perform surveys on employee morale. Maybe, they can
survey employees as to why they do not wear seatbelts, what would make them wear
seatbelts, what should be the punishment for failure to not wear a seatbelt?. As
always, point the finger at someone not a solution, Business as Usual.
“A good scapegoat is nearly as welcome as a solution to the problem”
DirtMiner |
| 1/11 |
Strider,
Maybe the question should be asked of how many days did Pena get suspended for
when he re ended a member of the
public on I-80 while driving a Government owned vehicle on Government time. (Bet
people never heard of that)
Wonder how many days Pena got suspended for when one of his District Rangers
while on duty and in a Government
owned vehicle was pulled over and arrested for DUI? (Probable never heard of
that either but they are factual)
Curious |
| 1/11 |
retention bonus:
Chuck:
Documentation from R5 indicates that the retention bonus is planned
[emphasis added] to be continued past Feb. 2010. Out of the original $25 million
appropriated for retention (according to sources an additional $3 million was
added to that but the source of those funds and why they were added is still
unknown), $3.9 million was planned to be spent in FY '09 on the bonus. However
only about $2.4 million was spent as it came down as WFPR funds and it was not
tracked separately but simply added to each unit's allocation.
Apparently the allowance was charged proportionately to what the base pay was
charged to in each pay period so if an individual spent 6 base days (60% of
base) on a fire in a given pay period, 60% of the allowance would be charged to
the fire instead of WFPR. Thus apparently $1.5 million was spent and charged to
WFSU but it was not able to be tracked.
The 2nd year of the bonus calls for a planned $ 4 million in 2010 and nearly $3
million in 2011.
Now the weird part about the $25 million. Congress indicated that of the $25
million, nearly $17 million was spent on the tour conversions. However according
to the documentation the FWFSA was fortunate to receive, since the tour
increases did not take effect until the fall of '09, there were no costs
incurred for those in FY '09. $21.1 million is planned to be spent on these
conversions in FY '10 so obviously money is in the back somewhere.??!!
I've already confused myself just writing this. The game of placing money under
one of 3 coconut shells and moving them around rapidly kind of comes to mind.
Casey |
| 1/11 |
I guess the reference to Heavy Mechanized Equipment refers to Wilderness Areas.
Would not have stopped this fire,
but would have perhaps made a difference in the Magic Mtn., Pleasant View and
the Wilderness in Devils Cyn. area
in the later stages of the fire.
RM
The fun never ends - Most of these recommendations were in place years ago.
Isn't retirement wonderful.
State Legislators Back Antonovich In Firefighting Proposal |
| 1/11 |
Retention Allowance Question: Getting close to that Feb. 28 cut off for region
five retention allowance. Got really used to the extra couple of bucks.
Anyone heard if there's a chance of us getting it for another year?
Chuck |
| 1/11 |
Seatbelts: Concerning the Klamath IHC Accident,
Who's passing the buck -MTR? I wasn't so concerned about the seatbelts that
could have been a lessons learned situation if handled correctly, now its a
complete FUBAR. This could be all a bad dream, but from what I heard, the
supervisors were unjustly reprimanded, the situation was handled incorrectly by
the Klamath National Forest: instead of showing any compassion or possibly
learning from the situation, or even taking the time visiting the injured
employees in the hospital, the action went straight to an adverse one, rumor has
it that a JHA was in place for the crew wearing seatbelts, that it was in the
crew SOPs, that the state law requiring seatbelts, and that the Crewboss told
the crew to put on their seatbelts that morning. Sounds like a personal
violation by the non-seatbelt wearing employees to me.
A proposed two week suspension for the Superintendent? a week for each of the
Captains? Letter of warnings for the violators? How pathetically insensitive,
ugly elitism by the manager involved. News flash, Fire supervisors are good
people who care for their employees safety and well being, the real punishment
is when someone gets hurt. Don't any of you dare question why FS morale is so
low when you support things that are handled like this... -MTR
Get your Insurance guys! So you can protect yourselves from the evil ones!
RC |
| 1/11 |
Seatbelts: While it is the law and policy, once the vehicles start moving it
is the adult decisions of individual crew members
to keep their seat belts on. We all know that those in the back of the crew
buggies find them extremely
uncomfortable and constricting (hence national discussion to change styles). But
to hold squad bosses, captains,
and Supt fully responsible to actions out of their control is crazy. We all do
checks but 30 minutes down the road.
When guys are sleeping, how is it the drivers and other responsibility to check
seat belts while driving?
BCJ |
| 1/11 |
Seatbelts: For Strider,
First of all Klamath IHC crunched a crew buggy to a TC clip, on Highway 99,
north of Chico. Not Interstate 5.
KNF held the overhead structure of the crew accountable, as any further up "the
chain", and the over head HAVE NO CONTACT WITH THE CREW FOLLOWING DEMOB ON THE
FEATHER RIVER puffer, nor on other common incident demob's. Therefore do not
have any effect on whether or not the crew fastens seat belts.
While it may be nice to want to place this reprimand higher up, I do believe it
lies squarely within the Crew's Structure. Responsibility for safety
precautionary checks for all 20 crew members on Handcrew or IHCs falls within
the crew's structure. We all check one another.
And lastly, because at Fed Ex, there is very little possibility of threat to
ones life. In your career choice, as a wild land fire fighter, there is a chain
of command. And it is thru this command structure that accountability will be
assessed, and punishment if necessary, dolled out. The safety belt in the buggy
is no different than making sure the sawyers have their ear plugs in, or the
toolers have their sleeves rolled down.
Stop passing the buck, and making excuses for overhead mistakes.
- MTR |
| 1/10 |
Seatbelts: Why didn't the CHP give them a fine on the spot for not wearing
their seatbelts?
CC |
| 1/10 |
Seatbelts: Why not give an equal disciplinary consequence to Supe and
Captains?
Supe says "wear your seatbelt, it's the law" and has Capt and crew
check each other.
Supe and Captains demonstrate "wear your seatbelt, it's the law."
If Supe or Captain sees no seatbelt they correct it.
Sets a climate of seatbelt use. It's a crew thang and "it's the law."
Vehicle accidents kill more firefighters than burnover or falling accidents.
My 2 cents...
AL |
| 1/10 |
Seatbelts: later on 1/10: Ab, please change the location of the clip to
N of Chico on Hwy 99, not I-5. Strider.
OK, here's a disciplinary action I have to call BS on! I heard this from a
buddie.
A crewbuggie of hotshots was clipped by a semi-truck last summer on
(not I-5 but hwy-99), were run off the road and
rolled over. You probably remember that. Some of the fellas were not wearing
seat belts. A CHP
investigation showed that the fault of the accident was the bigrig, not the
crewbuggie. So now what
happens?
Crazy but true...
The HS supe that was in the supe's rig - and had no say over the crew in the
crewbuggie - has been
given a 10 day suspension without pay by the KNF supervisor. One (or
more?) of the Captains got
a 3 day suspension and the shots not wearing the seatbelts got a
letter of reprimand.
What's with THAT???
Why is the HS supe blamed for the personal actions of crew in another
vehicle? Where is personal
accountability of the individual crewmembers? What kind of message does this
send? Crazy!
Where is personal accountability on the part of the Forest Supervisor
if she (plus Pena & Moore)
are not holding accountable those not wearing seatbelts?? We're each
responsible for wiping our own
bu**s, brushing our own teeth, snapping our own seatbelt, wearing our own
gloves!
If Patty does not get that about personal accountability, and her choice of
disciplinary actions were not
corrected by Pena and Moore, the additional message to me is that she and
other line officers making
decisions like this will never be held accountable for anything. All they have
to do is blame the middle
manager after the fact for their own failure to come up with real solutions
themselves. So much for Doctrine
and where the buck stops. So much for morale...
Analogy: you work for Fed Ex and the employee doesn't wear a seatbelt, it's
the employee that's fired,
not the employee's supervisor; the employee knows they're personally accountable
for seat belts!
Maybe our line officers need a course in logic. Maybe we need smarter people
running the show.
Bunch of hogwash! Bros, consult a lawyer and file a grievance! Don't let them
set a precedent like this!
Strider |
| 1/10 |
Federal OWCP ALL
WC Advocate said on 1/4:
As for Mr. Oppermann’s claim that nobody at OWCP would respond to his
letters, if OWCP does not have a written release signed by his wife giving
them authorization to communicate with him, they would be violating HIPPA
regulations if they did respond to him.
WC Advocate brings up what I consider to be critical point and that is the
impact of the HIPPA or health care privacy legislation. All of you need to be
aware that if you do not take steps to authorize someone to speak to medical
professionals on your behalf if you are injured they may be prevented by
criminal law from telling that person anything. Please do what your area
requires to establish your health care directive and identify who can deal with
the medical profession on your behalf if you are unable to do so. Make sure
those near and dear to you know that you have done so and where they can find
this information if the need arises.
Now as far as the responsiveness of Federal OWCP to the injured worker; as far
as I am concerned it does not exist in any form or fashion. If you have the
misfortune to be injured on the job I wish you all the luck in the world in
finding a Dr. that is willing to deal with Fed. OWCP on a long-term basis. The
county medical association is unable to give me any names of Drs. willing to
take on an existing case. Numerous telephone calls have yielded to same result,
including several “we wish you good luck in finding anyone” comments from Drs.
offices. My personal experience is you will get replies to letters to OWCP in
10% or less of the time including letters sent registered, return receipt
requested. If you ask more that one question in a letter and they do reply they
will answer only one of the questions. Due to the fact that these letters
involved my case, HIPPA should not be a consideration. I am sure there are
claims examiners out there that are very hard working, caring people, but from
my perspective they seem to be overwhelmed by the system they have to work with.
To me Federal OWCP has become a poster child of how the government fails to work
and for the good of the employee something needs to be changed.
Now PLEASE everyone, be safe out there and let's not need anyone's OWCP
SWID |
| 1/10 |
We're fine. While walking the neighborhood late last night, the power came back
on. Good for PG&E!
Everyone we know of is fine. No gas smell and could not find any problem with
our chimney. Some years ago
we added "skirts" to the sill plate on our house to tie it in to the stem wall
foundation. Nothing walked off the
foundation. Ferndale -- south of Eureka -- had a big problem with that some
years back in a 7.4 earthquake.
We've been are ready for something like this with long extension cords and
whisper generator. Tall shelves are
bolted to the wall. Preparation helps.
One or more plate glass windows blew out on Carl Johnson's during the quake as
extended family were buying
an old table. It landed on an SUV but no one was hurt by flying glass. Carl J is
on the fill mud flats near the little
Eureka airport so it got shaken up pretty well.
From reports I've heard Ferndale and Loleta fared worse with broken windows,
downed electrical lines, etc.
Hope all are OK there, but heard there were no injuries anywhere really.
Just noticed this morning that all our pictures are crooked, all closet doors
upstairs were open. But downstairs
my wall of family handbuilt ceramics -- on a tall shelf that's bolted to the
wall! -- did not lose anything except one
sturdy little horse that bounced on the carpet. Amazing!OK, enough of this
non-fire stuff. Thanks for all the emails and calls. As my old dad used to say
to his Scouts,
"Be Prepared".
M
PS Thanks -MTR |
| 1/10 |
For Mellie,
Because the GO Road doesn't go thru, actually a quicker alternate route to state
HWY 101, would be Sth. Fk.
Smith River over Red Mtn Lookout (CDF) and down the Pekwan Creek watershed,
ending up downriver, then
across martins ferry and out Bald Hills to Orick. Of course you better have your
Yurok Tribal ID ready.
That shook Redding pretty good!
- MTR |
| 1/9 |
burn gel In response to Wrench's post and inquiry, I've been to a number of
classes taught by burn specialists, and they
have universally discouraged putting any form of gel, goo, salve, ointment, or
anything else other than plan water
on a burn. It will feel great at first - but has to be aggressively scrubbed off
in the burn center, so the individual
that enjoyed the relief will be cursing your "cure" by the time they get there.
Just water, then clean dressings, is
all they recommend. Now, that's for serious burns. Boo-boo type burns, knock
yourself out if it feels good, but
if it's going to require treatment, burn folks insist don't put anything on it.
KSENGB |
| 1/9 |
re: burn gel
Wrench,
That seems to be common practice from the medics in the field I have talked
with. Even my EMT instructor which
was taught by a U of U Hospital RN said not to use burn gels on any burns.
We don't carry the stuff within our crew, but use cool water and clean gauze
when needed.
Kris
Lone Peak IHC |
| 1/9 |
burn gels I am attending a WEMT course and we had a presenter from the JMS
burn center in Georgia. She stated that the
director of the program Dr. Joseph M. Still repeatedly made the statement that
Burn Gels are not good to use on
2nd and 3rd degree burns. The reasoning was that they held in heat.
Take it for what it's worth. It's second hand. But she was extremely
knowledgeable and talking way above the
first responder level.
I would be interested in knowing if anyone else out there had similar or
contraindicating information
wrench |
| **** |
~Archive:
Dec-09
~Archive:
Nov-09 |
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